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Thread: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

  1. #26
    Conductor of Insanity Ario's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Hmm, I suppose that would work a bit better, would it not?
    I was only making the sides even to make both sides feel evenly matched, and so one wouldn't be over powered.
    I suppose I could have two town teams, but they work independently.
    Or something.
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  2. #27
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but having two "even" sides duking it out against each other just leads to stalemates in votes and one side losing as soon as they're one member down. Also, there's still the thing about having unique roles in both of the sides since if only one side has a godfather who can kill, they've automatically won.

    Also, two towns doesn't work. That still puts the mafia in a terrible position. :P

    Mafia needs a large town and a small mafia. That's the way it works the best.

  3. #28
    Conductor of Insanity Ario's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but having two "even" sides duking it out against each other just leads to stalemates in votes and one side losing as soon as they're one member down. Also, there's still the thing about having unique roles in both of the sides since if only one side has a godfather who can kill, they've automatically won.
    Actually, if you read the roles, You would see that dave and equius technically can kill.
    They just can't do it every night.
    I evened it out a bit, two towns vs one mafia should work the way I've done it.
    It's almost like a three way free for all, but it's more like the humans are good, half the trolls are neutral, and the other half is chaotic.
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  4. #29
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Because I totally said that. I mentioned that "only one side has a godfather who can kill" and if you pay attention to the rules that you wrote, only Karkat is a godfather who can kill every night. Sure, the town has Dave who can't kill every night, but the mafia also has Equius. Just do the math.

    Also, if one side is neutral, that means that they're not aligned with the town or mafia. To win, a mafia needs to have more members than the town. If the neutrals align themselves with the mafia, it's pretty much an immediate game over for the town. Think about the win conditions first.

    Edit: Didn't realize you edited your post, but the first thing I see is a Sheriff who knows their entire town? Just get the Sheriffs to tell their entire town who's who, and then the mafia loses. The town is not supposed to know who's on their side. Why is this so complicated?
    Last edited by Ark; February 5th, 2012 at 02:54 PM.

  5. #30
    Conductor of Insanity Ario's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    Because I totally said that. I mentioned that "only one side has a godfather who can kill" and if you pay attention to the rules that you wrote, only Karkat is a godfather who can kill every night. Sure, the town has Dave who can't kill every night, but the mafia also has Equius. Just do the math.

    Also, if one side is neutral, that means that they're not aligned with the town or mafia. To win, a mafia needs to have more members than the town. If the neutrals align themselves with the mafia, it's pretty much an immediate game over for the town. Think about the win conditions first.

    Edit: Didn't realize you edited your post, but the first thing I see is a Sheriff who knows their entire town? Just get the Sheriffs to tell their entire town who's who, and then the mafia loses. Why is this so complicated?
    It is actually not all that complicated.
    The true neutrals are the consorts, I guess I used the term neutral wrongly for the trolls that are town aligned, I meant to say something long the lines of 'They want to stabilize the town but not get the humans involved.'
    The sheriffs only know of their own side, this means that the sheriff of the trolls does not know the sheriff of the humans, therefore you only know about 1/3 of the players excluding true neutrals.
    Also, I would make the win conditions either be mafia gives up or all the mafia members with roles get killed.
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  6. #31
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Okay, Ario, I'm going to have to veto the game.

    I've already addressed my problems with the game: two towns, Sheriffs who can organize groups that should be uninformed, a generally terrible chance for the mafia to win, and an incomplete draft of the game's OP which is difficult to understand.

    I've talked with others and the general consensus seems to be that this is the way to go. If you're willing to start up a different game, a much simpler game using a format similar to the one that I've given you, then I'll gladly add you to the list of GMs. At the moment though, I can't see this game working out.

  7. #32
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Okay, so as silly/strange as this'll sound, the next Mafia game I'd like to host will be BitF themed! All of the roles will be given usernames of other users (see below, it'll make sense there). For a few, I'll ask users if it's okay to use their name first (it's kind of in bad taste to call people hookers unless they're okay with it beforehand).

    I'm doing an awful job explaining it, so let's just go straight to the OP.

    Spoiler: BitF Mafia 


    Shortly, I'll be contacting people whose names I would like to use for the roles. Included will be a copy of the role PM, and if you're okay with it (I'll definitely be poking fun at people, but harmless fun), then that'll be what is used. I'd rather overprepare and not offend anyone than underprepare and end up getting in trouble because someone didn't like what I had to say about them.
    Last edited by Elfice; February 17th, 2012 at 08:24 PM.
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  8. #33
    Shout out to the Wayback machine Ruane's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Based on a True Story

    Twenty individuals played an innocent game of Castle Lololo Mafia. What they didn’t know was GM Ruane withheld a 13th role from the game, in fear of the players’ safety. The game finished and was successful enough to spawn an immediate sequel. But somewhere during the re-posting process, Role 13 slipped in. Someone in the game is about to be driven mad, but who?


    Spoiler: Castle Lololo Mafia v13.0. 


    I already asked Elfice and he said go ahead and post this.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuraKnight View Post
    Rune's whole thing is shovels. So yeah, he'd be able to find a way.
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  9. #34
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    We have no games drafted, so it's totally cool that you've set this up. You being a rad GM also helps.
    Last edited by Ark; February 16th, 2012 at 11:52 PM.

  10. #35
    WHAT THE &&&& DID I TELL YOU JERRY? SHUT THE &&&& UP JERRY! Forum Veteran BrandonSP's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    So what exactly does this 13th role do? I'm pefectly fine with a repost of this game since we really didn't have to deal with any of the new roles you added, but this 13th role sounds like fun...
    Spoiler: Codes, Steam, and Internetometer 

  11. #36
    Shout out to the Wayback machine Ruane's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    My Pokemafia sequel shall languish in development hell. Based on the average 20 players, the game will not function well. As much as I hate to break up the perfectly balanced dynamics between the two mafias, it won't balance with a small town. The game would require a contingency plan if I were to ever post it.

    If anyone else want to give it a try, go ahead.
    Quote Originally Posted by AuraKnight View Post
    Rune's whole thing is shovels. So yeah, he'd be able to find a way.
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  12. #37
    WHAT THE &&&& DID I TELL YOU JERRY? SHUT THE &&&& UP JERRY! Forum Veteran BrandonSP's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruane View Post
    My Pokemafia sequel shall languish in development hell. Based on the average 20 players, the game will not function well. As much as I hate to break up the perfectly balanced dynamics between the two mafias, it won't balance with a small town. The game would require a contingency plan if I were to ever post it.

    If anyone else want to give it a try, go ahead.
    Just give it a few months, Ruane. Summer's coming soon and more people will be able to be active.
    Spoiler: Codes, Steam, and Internetometer 

  13. #38
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    For &&&&s and giggles (also to stay up), I went back to read some of the old mafia games, and I noticed a similar pattern: a LOT of the same roles, and everyone listening to the same general group.

    And as I was reading, I got an idea...what would everyone do if they almost no experience with ANY of the roles?

    And that's how this post was born.

    The next game that I'll host (note: this could be the very next game, but if someone else has a game planned or is working on it, I will gladly step aside and let them go) will feature the obscure and unused roles. I noticed in my two games that I threw in spies, which aren't as common on Lololo, an interceptor (which I think was in one other game but don't quote me on that, maybe under a different name), a safeguard, which is a role that I don't think has been used except for in mine, and an insane cop.

    Apart from that, it'll be vanilla (about time I hosted a vanilla, anyway), and because I would like to experiment with as many roles as possible, will have two mafias. I'm praying that this'll work out, and I'm hoping that y'all will trust me. It's become clear that everyone follows the experienced players almost blindly, or they instantly suspect them of being dangerous, so by instead using these more obscure roles, I'm hoping this will result on everyone being on a level playing field as far as night strategy goes. I'll also be experimenting with role modifiers: little add-on bonuses that get randomly assigned to players, both with and without roles.

    Castle Lololo Mafia v15.0bscure

    Spoiler: General Rules 


    Role names have been taken from this site. But as for what they will do, refer to this post only. I will be altering a good number of these to suit my needs.

    Spoiler: Town Roles 


    Spoiler: Mafia Roles 


    Spoiler: Neutral Roles 


    Spoiler: Role Modifiers 


    The channel for this game will be #bitfobscure. Additionally, each Mafia will have their own private channel.

    It's a lot to take in, but every single word is important. How does it look in terms of playability?
    Last edited by Elfice; March 23rd, 2012 at 04:27 PM. Reason: OKAY EVERYTHING IS DONE THIS IS THE FINAL VERSION
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  14. #39
    throwback charigaara's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    I'm not one for judging balances, but the Forensic Investigator seems really powerful to me. It can find mafia quickly and easily, simply by checking up on the most recent night death. It's a lot easier than just having a normal detective. And I kind of don't get the point of the Tree Stump modifier, but that's more me than anything wrong with it. I really like the idea of the two mafias, though, especially the Universal Backup. That'll be interesting to play with~

  15. #40
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    I do see your point...

    Okay, I've adjusted the role to reveal only the names of the players who targeted that user, but nothing else. I chose that before deciding on a Tracker, so I think I just forgot to go back and re-examine it to adjust to the addition of it.
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  16. #41
    We're all lurkers here SSBBrawler's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Alright, I think I'm ready to host another Mafia game.

    Spoiler: Castle Lololo Mafia v.14 (It's totally 14 now.) 
    Last edited by SSBBrawler; March 21st, 2012 at 04:46 PM.

  17. #42
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Brawler and I have agreed to switch games just so I'm not hosting two in a row.

    Also I made some more changes: Doctor, Forensic Investigator, and one of the Role Modifiers.
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  18. #43
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Both games are good to go. Just a couple suggestions that you guys may or may not want to take:

    Brawler: Your game seems fine, but it's my opinion that BitF is much better at playing townie than they are at being mafia, so perhaps knocking off a townie role or two would be better for balance. Also, I'm not especially keen on the Police Officer role since I'm not a big fan of hints, but I can't really remember how well that role performed in your last game, so I'll chalk that up mostly to bias. Also, you mentioned that "all roles, excepting the Politician, will remain anonymous," and this strikes me as odd since not only was the lack of anonymity the reason as to why the town won in the game where the Politician was last used, but you've also stated the Politician will "have no bodyguards" this time around. Am I misunderstanding something here? Lastly, there's a spoilerbox issue with the neutral roles, but that's nothing major.

    Elfice: It's really refreshing to see new roles, but they're kind of hard to comment on since I have no experience on them, so forgive me if I'm looking at these the wrong way. Anyway, might want to look into possibly cutting a townie role since in the past, the mafias fought each other over control before directing their attention to the town. This led to the town winning against both mafias (although I'd suggest waiting until we know how many players there are in the end if you actually decide to go through with a cut). Can the Forensic Investigator detect kills made by the Godfather? If so, I think that would prove to be a big disadvantage for the active mafia, especially since once the Godfather dies, they won't be able to make any kills (I know that the Seraph can be used to get past this, but an organized town could possibly use this to their advantage) Also, I'd rather the Oracle be able to see their own prediction since giving it to someone else could be a real pain and not worth actually using.

    Anyway, those are my suggestions. Your games are already good enough to go though, so if you think that my theorycrafting is off the mark, feel free to keep the current drafts.

  19. #44
    We're all lurkers here SSBBrawler's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    Both games are good to go. Just a couple suggestions that you guys may or may not want to take:

    Brawler: Your game seems fine, but it's my opinion that BitF is much better at playing townie than they are at being mafia, so perhaps knocking off a townie role or two would be better for balance. Also, I'm not especially keen on the Police Officer role since I'm not a big fan of hints, but I can't really remember how well that role performed in your last game, so I'll chalk that up mostly to bias. Also, you mentioned that "all roles, excepting the Politician, will remain anonymous," and this strikes me as odd since not only was the lack of anonymity the reason as to why the town won in the game where the Politician was last used, but you've also stated the Politician will "have no bodyguards" this time around. Am I misunderstanding something here? Lastly, there's a spoilerbox issue with the neutral roles, but that's nothing major.
    Whoops! I copied and pasted a majority of the rules from my previous game. The Politician is going to be anonymous. charigaara was the Police Officer in the last game, and she didn't get the right answers for the hints. The hints are fairly vague and require massive amounts of thinking outside the box. For this reason, I don't consider it an unfair advantage.

  20. #45
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    I'd reply with quote but my phone isn't cooperating fully so Ark, this is to you.

    I adjusted the FI again (but I thought it was before you commented though you may have read before), and now their investigation yields the roles, but not the names, of whomever targeted the dead user. So they would see "godfather" and that's it. And remember, there is a chance that the godfather could get the Ninja modifier. Additionally, because the godfather is so important to the Active mafia, I'll also give him a one-shot antidote to protect him from one round of poison. But nobody else will receive this.

    As for the Oracle, you just listed the definition of a detective. However, SNF and I had a chat about the Oracle too, and I decided to allow the Oracle to choose the recipient of their dream every other night. It still can't be themselves, but it can be a fellow Passive mafia member. On the off nights, however, the recipient will be random, but to clear up any confusion, the Oracle always picks who to send the dream about.

    I think these two modifications balance it a bit better, so I think that eliminates the town's need to scrap a role.
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  21. #46
    Conductor of Insanity Ario's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    I think I've fixed Mafiastuck.
    Here's a basic run-down, if it looks good, i'll edit in a better explanation of roles.
    Spoiler: Mafiastuck 2: Let's try again 


    Any criticism is welcome if it's not TOO harsh.
    Last edited by Ario; March 23rd, 2012 at 06:34 PM.
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  22. #47
    I just realized that my "title" was stupid since it's april now Meta-Mind's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    I'm confused as to how some of those rolees work. For example, what do "time clones" do? Are they killable? Do they kill? Et cetera, et cetera.

    In my opinion, the GM shouldn't have a role. The GM knows all roles, so the GM being able to kill? Get an alliance with the GM, and you insta-win.

  23. #48
    Our everyday lives may, in fact, be a series of miracles. Forum Veteran AuraKnight's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    > Host not being Doc Scratch

    Well there's your first problem :P

    This is definitely a better attempt than last time was, but there are still some things that don't make quite enough sense. For example, why are the protagonists fighting themselves? Did Karkat of all people flip out and decide to kill the other trolls? I dunno, something about that just doesn't sit right with me.

    The other main thing is that you don't have to have a role for every troll? You could leave some out, or maybe make them vanilla or something - at the moment, you've got an awful lot of neutrals, and seem to be grasping at straws for new ideas. Things like Tavros are a good idea, but maybe a few more of those with really really minor restrictions?

    Also, putting restrictions based on canon is kinda silly when, for example, you've got Sollux and Aradia trying to kill each other. It's a cool idea but it's not really needed and confuses things. One of the things about a Homestuck mafia is that you have to kind of unravel the complexities of Homestuck and keep it simple, otherwise everyone who hasn't read the whole thing would be lost!

    So yeah, you've improved since last time but you're not quite there yet, imo.
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  24. #49
    Skullo Dream Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    Okay, not gonna approve it due to balance issues and the fact that there's, believe it or not, more to a game of mafia than just roles.

    The veterans know the basic rules of the game, but that's not really an excuse for not including them, especially for new players. There's also the fact that each game is different in how they choose to approach some of the concepts of mafia, and you not addressing this is an issue. For example, will roles be able to target the same player twice in a row? There is nothing in your post that answers this question because you only have roles, no rules. Also, work on the formatting so that it's much more pleasing to read. Bolding the names of the roles and such because right now, it's kinda not very pretty.

    Spoiler: now to break down the roles 


    Lastly, I know that you want to do a Homestuck mafia, but something like Homestuck can really alienate quite a few potential players.

    I'd also like to mention that I've already addressed all of these issues to you in your last mafia. This one isn't as silly, but it sure isn't playable yet.
    Last edited by Ark; March 23rd, 2012 at 04:51 PM.

  25. #50
    What Would Bayonetta Do? Forum Veteran Elfice's Avatar
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    Re: Lololo Mafia Planning Thread

    The biggest issue is that you don't have the consorts as town. Rule #1 of Mafia is that if the mafia outnumbers the town, then the game is over. With an equal number of townies and mafiosos, this game will not last long. Or the mafia can get to Dave and make one time clone if the conditions are right. Vanilla neutrals don't even exist, anyway. Switch those to town.

    Issue #2 is, as Meta-Mind said, that you as the GM have a role. That lets you kill on top of it. No. The GM does not play the mafia game, for it gives them an unfair advantage since they know everyone else's roles.

    #3: Reviver. Death is intended to be permanent, whether or not it was an accident/mistake. People are also often killed for knowing something, and even a temporary revival would shift the balance unfavorably in one direction.

    #4: You don't even need that many neutrals. Tavros belongs with the town based on his abilities, the aforementioned consorts, and if you are dead set on using every single troll, you're going to need to change Gamzee (again, previously mentioned). My recommendation is nixing the Midnight Crew all together and putting either Equius or an altered Gamzee in their place.

    #5: Again as previously mentioned by Meta-Mind, Dave's role is very vague. When you make up a role/use an obscure role, you need to explain every detail about it. While we're at it, Vriska could use some clarification too. Forces WHAT night action? You also need to include whatever limitations there will be on roles in the description of each. These aren't things you can afford to leave it or hide from everyone but the person who gets the role.


    These are the biggest issues I see, and they're very significant. Go look at other drafts on the thread to get an idea as to what yours should look like regarding role explanations and whatnot.
    Last edited by Elfice; March 23rd, 2012 at 04:07 PM.
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