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Thread: Opinion on sonic?

  1. #1
    Cute Little Poot kangataz's Avatar
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    Opinion on sonic?

    hello,

    lately I am back into playing sonic, since I am leaving my pokemon phase.... I just wanted to start this thread to see what other people think of sonic.

    When I first saw him in brawl I thought he was cool because of a preconceived notion that he's the "cool" protagonist, unlike other flawed protagonist characters such as fatty mario with a funny accent no offense, or kirby that squishy pink ball whose a little feminine for my taste. Plus blue is my favorite color.

    to my disappointment, sonic was nothing that I expected. yes he was quick but I HATED the fact that he lacked variety in his move set as well as power. To the common eye his neutral B, and dash A, f-B, looks exactly the same! Being a common power attack player like pikachu, I was super disappointed that sonic didn't satisfy my need for a strong finishing move....Also it seems like the priority whenever he goes against anyone's move head to head, he almost always loses. I was used to playing luigi's whirlwind in melee it was impenetrable.

    over time I have learned to enjoy playing him a little better. Here are some things I discovered:
    - f-B can act as a temporary shield against enemy's attempt to edge guard or even throws enemies off who tries to use projectile attacks as you're running towards them
    -sonic's speed gives him better edge when playing with items, I seriously think that's why the developers reduced his attack power
    -his strongest finishing blows I'd have to say is the f-arial A, as well as b-arial A, his d-arial A is not as strong as it looks
    -also since he pretty much loses to head on contact, I've learned to use more grabs with him
    -this is one of my favorites, dash, u-smash A. It gives him a safe distance to perform his vortexy spin without being interrupted

    so anybody have any opinions on sonic?

  2. #2
    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    to my disappointment, sonic was nothing that I expected. yes he was quick but I HATED the fact that he lacked variety in his move set as well as power. To the common eye his neutral B, and dash A, f-B, looks exactly the same! Being a common power attack player like pikachu, I was super disappointed that sonic didn't satisfy my need for a strong finishing move....Also it seems like the priority whenever he goes against anyone's move head to head, he almost always loses. I was used to playing luigi's whirlwind in melee it was impenetrable.
    Sonic's priority is terrible except for his forward+B spin move. As such you should utilize his speed and these rolls to generate pressure upon the opponent so you can help control them.

    Do remember that you can cancel Sonic's forward+B by jumping out of it, meaning that you can follow up with another attack immediately as the attack connects(many players I've seen prefer following a hit up with an immediate fair for further damage).

    Your kill moves are limited however, leaving you to uair(while close to the ceiling or if the opponent's really high up), fsmash or dsmash to finish off most opponents. Gimping opportunities give you the aerial up+B spring, bair, fair and maybe nair to finish off your opponents, but even then...

    I'm not sure where you got "common power player like Pikachu" or the idea that Luigi's whirlwind in Melee was impenetrable. Though the mechanics are still there somewhat in Brawl, in Melee no aerial attacks would really "clash", meaning that either the attack hit or it didn't. Not to mention projectiles like with Falco or Sheik, or the fact that it left you open after finishing it(and still does!).

    However, a clear exception to the above rule is Sonic's forward+B, and as mentioned, should be utilized for damage output. You could even use your down+B instead from time to time to fake out an opponent being controlled by your forward+B shenanigans.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    - f-B can act as a temporary shield against enemy's attempt to edge guard or even throws enemies off who tries to use projectile attacks as you're running towards them
    Which makes for it to be one of Sonic's more reliable approach methods, but don't get too predictable with it. Keep in mind Wario laughs at any attempt to use it, as even if Wario takes a hit, his bite attack will still catch you.

    I believe grabs can get you out of that attack too, if well-timed. You'll likely take the hit, but if you time it right you'll still get the grab.

    I'm pretty sure other attacks with extended hitboxes(explosives) or invincibility(most notably the Counters) are able to break through it. One hit will break the roll, and any subsequent attack will hit Sonic.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    -sonic's speed gives him better edge when playing with items, I seriously think that's why the developers reduced his attack power
    It might, if it weren't for the fact that your running momentum doesn't transfer with your jumps like it did in the previous entries in the series. Unless you're playing on FD, you're going to have to jump to get quite a few items.

    Sonic's attacks set up for raising damage quickly, but his kill moves are subpar compared to the rest of the cast, so that means he has to usually work harder to get kills unless you're playing with items or the opponent(s) are easily edgeguarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    -his strongest finishing blows I'd have to say is the f-arial A, as well as b-arial A, his d-arial A is not as strong as it looks
    Did you forget his smashes? Well, then again I did mention what was up with that in the above.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    -also since he pretty much loses to head on contact, I've learned to use more grabs with him
    Sonic's best throw is really his dthrow since it places the opponent in a position where Sonic can do one of three things, I believe, to punish them - fair, dash attack or something else that slips my mind. Been a while.

    The others... meh. Maybe to create an edgeguard situation for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    -this is one of my favorites, dash, u-smash A. It gives him a safe distance to perform his vortexy spin without being interrupted
    That's a standard for most characters with useful up smashes. To pair with that, you might want to fake them out more by stopping your dash with a shield or going for a grab. A competent opponent who expects the up smash will be ready to punish you, especially if you're in their personal space.

    Though with what ranges from character to character.
    Last edited by Eltrotraw; May 27th, 2010 at 08:57 PM.

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  3. #3
    Cute Little Poot kangataz's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post

    I'm not sure where you got "common power player like Pikachu" or the idea that Luigi's whirlwind in Melee was impenetrable. Though the mechanics are still there somewhat in Brawl, in Melee no aerial attacks would really "clash", meaning that either the attack hit or it didn't. Not to mention projectiles like with Falco or Sheik, or the fact that it left you open after finishing it(and still does!).
    pikachu has crazy offensive IMO, thats what I meant i guess with "power player". my favorite move on pika has to be his d-smash. Hmm luigi has been totally nerfed/revamped in brawl, HATE him now, he used to be my favorite in melee. His n-air had high priority(in melee) and now it sucks. His whirlwind d-B, rarely leaves vulnerable room open for me, since it almost always knocks enemies back, and since I actually can travel while performing the move it can chase down people that try to rolldodge it, or even gives time for me to get away if necessary while still spinning(of course this is all melee talk). Not many people seem to know this about his traveling whirlwind, since mario's whirlwind is static and that's what people expect...

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    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    pikachu has crazy offensive IMO, thats what I meant i guess with "power player". my favorite move on pika has to be his d-smash.
    I wouldn't call Pika "crazy offensive", though, since that can easily be put alongside to other characters. Tricky, perhaps, considering its maneuverability(especially with up+B cancelling) and what it has available like the aforementioned down smash.

    Its only real powerful attacks to utilize are forward smash, up smash(which has been notably nerfed from Melee), forward+b(but what smart player that's paying attention would run into that), and down+B(which any competent player should realize not to touch the lightning bolt or Pikachu once it impacts him)... everything else is just... meh. Its aerials are pretty good, yeah, but I find that they're awkward to use and usually force Pika to be up close, which I guess can be subverted with some clever up+b cancelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    Hmm luigi has been totally nerfed/revamped in brawl, HATE him now, he used to be my favorite in melee. His n-air had high priority(in melee) and now it sucks.
    It still has high priority in Brawl. What game are we playing here?

    You still lose out if disjointed attacks hit you before you hit them, including Marth, Meta Knight, Ike, and Link's swords among other things like Kirby's feet, ROB's rocket thrusters, Lucario's aura, Ice Climber's and Dedede's hammers, along with several others I'm probably forgetting here.

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    His whirlwind d-B, rarely leaves vulnerable room open for me, since it almost always knocks enemies back, and since I actually can travel while performing the move it can chase down people that try to rolldodge it, or even gives time for me to get away if necessary while still spinning(of course this is all melee talk). Not many people seem to know this about his traveling whirlwind, since mario's whirlwind is static and that's what people expect...
    This can easily be avoided in the air or if you're blocking, and as previously mentioned, projectiles. The "travelling whirlwind" is just that, one hit, and then you're done... which makes me think you're facing people that prefer rolling and dodging over blocking. Luigi was more dangerous in the air and with his wavedashing on the ground moreso than with his whirlwind. Useful for a surprise, but nothing more against more competent players.

    This can still be done in Brawl, but I'm pretty sure that it got nerfed.

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  5. #5
    Cute Little Poot kangataz's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    This can easily be avoided in the air or if you're blocking, and as previously mentioned, projectiles. The "travelling whirlwind" is just that, one hit, and then you're done... Luigi was more dangerous in the air ...
    yeah my plan of attack in melee has always been send them up in the air with the whirlwind then beat the crap out of them in the air with his n-air, it has fast execution sometimes allows two hits in a row, high priority, also powerful as a killing blow, which seems to be my complaint in brawl, the knock back seem to have gotten nerfed, them seem to channel that knockback power on his dash attack instead...(lol his girly punches)

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    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    This isn't even about Sonic anymore. If you want to continue this discussion, bring it to PM or similar.

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  7. #7
    Cute Little Poot kangataz's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    I notice sonic isn't that popular for people to want to play for the reasons I mentioned above. My biggest pet peeve is when I see people abuse his B (homing spin). Oh god stop the homing spam already....

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    We're all lurkers here SSBBrawler's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Sonic's only good trait really is his speed, letting you grab people relatively quickly. However, you can zoom right past them by accident... His throws are decent, but need to be more horizontal.

  9. #9
    Cute Little Poot kangataz's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    yes I know exactly what you mean about zooming past people. In fact that zooming past thing comes in handy when grabbing things off the ground. You gave me a great idea to practice on though, grabs!

  10. #10
    there's math and there's dealers and players and killers and me Dragon's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Sonic does have pretty good throws, and he whips all the power characters to death, alongside Dedede. His Final Smash is VERY good in the hands of a Sonic expert like myself. The thing about Sonic is that he stinks to high heaven in wide open spaces.

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    WHAT THE &&&& DID I TELL YOU JERRY? SHUT THE &&&& UP JERRY! Forum Veteran BrandonSP's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon777 View Post
    Sonic does have pretty good throws, and he whips all the power characters to death, alongside Dedede. His Final Smash is VERY good in the hands of a Sonic expert like myself. The thing about Sonic is that he stinks to high heaven in wide open spaces.
    But he works PERFECTLY in small enclosed spaces where it is hard to be knocked off. I have a custom stage that fits the description that I just mentioned exactly. I played on it once with my friend. He is good at the game and had 2 level 9 compters on his side. I played as Sonic and had one life left while him and the level 9's still had two or three. I won the fight with like 300% on Sonic
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  12. #12
    Cute Little Poot chihuahua0's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    He's too fast for me and his Final Smash is cheap in the hands of one of my friends

    *points to a penguin*

    I don't ever play as Sonic. I perfer some of the other characters.

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    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SSBBrawler View Post
    Sonic's only good trait really is his speed, letting you grab people relatively quickly. However, you can zoom right past them by accident... His throws are decent, but need to be more horizontal.
    might want to practice on your timing or reaction speed there if you're consistently zooming past them by "accident".

    Quote Originally Posted by kangataz View Post
    yes I know exactly what you mean about zooming past people. In fact that zooming past thing comes in handy when grabbing things off the ground. You gave me a great idea to practice on though, grabs!
    better to just grab things in the air. do a quick jump once you get near the item and tap your grab button.

    your other alternatives are to jump and do an aerial attack, since aerial attacks grab items now(preferrable not to risk this with bombs or item containers), perform a dash attack over the item, or stop running(preferrable to hit the shield button, since this ignores the character skidding to a stop. this works with all characters, not just sonic - but the skidding to a stop thing is much more noticeable with sonic).

    Quote Originally Posted by dragon777 View Post
    Sonic does have pretty good throws, and he whips all the power characters to death, alongside Dedede. His Final Smash is VERY good in the hands of a Sonic expert like myself. The thing about Sonic is that he stinks to high heaven in wide open spaces.
    sonic has "decent" throws at best, since as mentioned the best one he really has is the down throw for setting up a follow up of sorts. the rest are just meh, since the only viable finishing throw he has is up, and that's only at much higher percents.

    let me also mention a snake utilizing grenades to get in the way of your shenanigans can control the space between you and him, and it's not like his ground game is terrible with that spammable jab or forward tilt(not to mention the range). other "power characters" have ways to deal with him as well(dedede can ftilt for instance to control the ground), don't think you're facing people who realize this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonSP View Post
    But he works PERFECTLY in small enclosed spaces where it is hard to be knocked off. I have a custom stage that fits the description that I just mentioned exactly. I played on it once with my friend. He is good at the game and had 2 level 9 compters on his side. I played as Sonic and had one life left while him and the level 9's still had two or three. I won the fight with like 300% on Sonic
    let me add that you can apply this argument to pretty much any character's viability, so i'm not sure where you're pulling this out of.

    replace "sonic" with pretty much any other character in the game
    Last edited by Eltrotraw; June 9th, 2010 at 12:33 PM.

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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    Sonic's killing power is pathetic, but I find many people I fight underestimate Sonic's ability. Just because he doesn't kill at 90% doesn't mean he's not a threat. He racks up damage fairly quickly. The main problem is that Sonic's kill moves are predictable. In the air close to the ceiling? Dodge a U-Air. Sonic facing you backwards? B-Air incoming. F-Smash is a bit harder to predict, and it's the move I mainly use for kills. But I get REALLY spammy with it once my opponent reaches 100%+. D-Smash is better, but it's weaker.
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    Cute Little Poot Panda's Avatar
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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    I don't play as Sonic TOO too often, but I'm certainly fine with playing as him. His intense speed and spinning attacks can make him somewhat unpredictable and/or tough to keep track of, which makes up for his somewhat low priority and lack of good KO-ing attacks.

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    Re: Opinion on sonic?

    I used to play as Sonic a lot in Brawl, but in Smash 4, I've been leaning more on Toon Link and Dr. Mario. I tried using Sonic, just to see if I had any skills still, and I did, but I was only going against computer players, so I don't know how good I really am.
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