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Thread: If you could change a Final Smash...

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    Navi: HEY! LISTEN! Link: HEY! Shutup. Zeldafan615's Avatar
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    If you could change a Final Smash...

    Who's would you change? I would change (so far) Meta Knight's, Mario's, and Jigglypuff's. My reason for Meta Knight is for a character that is so good he got banned from tournaments has ironically one of the worst Final Smashes in the game. Mario's is really easy to dodge. All you have to do is get behind him and don't go in front of him when he is using it. And Jigglypuff's has a short range, and all you need to do is go below (assuming she is on a higher platform than you) or far away from her. So, begin.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I would definitely change Ness's Final smash. Why? He NEVER learned PK Starstorm and his actual "signature move" is PSI Rockin. So why not letting the little guy use his own move for the Final Smash? He could use some little more originality since both PK Fire and PK Thunder also aren't moves he learned in Earthbound (Nintendo's excuse for Ness's moveset can be found by reading Paula's trophy description in Melee. It preety much says Ness had Paula to teach him both moves before the fighting series)
    Same thing for Lucas and his PK Love.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Meta Knight's final smash is actually among the powerfulest. If you hit (which is actually easy), it has a veritable assload of knockback, and anyone who touches the slash effect also gets hit, though not as hard.

    As for whose I would change, Falco's and Wolf's. Falco should have an Arwing (PERSONALLY, I PREFER THE AIR), and Wolf... I have no clue, I haven't played Star Fox.

    EDIT: Oh, and Mario's isn't easy to avoid. If Mario just jumps off the edge and fires it onto the stage, it's near impossible to avoid unless your character has a flight recovery or a metric blooptone of jumps. And sometimes, there isn't a lower platform to avoid Jiggly's Smash; and even then, Jiggly can use it on that lower platform, since she grows through platforms.
    Last edited by Megaron; November 12th, 2011 at 10:31 AM.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Lucas needs PK Love, that's true.
    Starstorm's cool though for Ness. :B Then again, not a huge Mother fan.

    Mario's COULD use a buff though.

    Meta-Knight's isn't too hard to dodge, and it's pretty much an instant kill. It's also the only thing that keeps him slightly nerfed.

    Why is King Dedede's so useless... I mean it barely does any damage, anyone barely adept at jumping can survive, and the only real damage comes from the gordo's. And if you get into any small area or far enough away you're completely safe.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I agree with Megaron. There's just no need for all three of the Starfox characters to have the Landmaster when so many different vehicles have been featured throughout the series.
    Other than that, I would switch one of the Links' Final Smashes. Link could have something different, maybe something involving his special moves featured in Twilight Princess.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldafan615 View Post
    Mario's is really easy to dodge. All you have to do is get behind him and don't go in front of him when he is using it.
    The problem with Mario's FS is, that it doesn't have any (or very weak) knockback. It behaves more like FLUDD and simply pushes the enemy away. It's also a bit on the slow side. Give it knockback and make it faster and it'll be much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeldafan615 View Post
    And Jigglypuff's has a short range, and all you need to do is go below (assuming she is on a higher platform than you) or far away from her. So, begin.
    Jigglypuff's Final Smash is not bad for edgeguarding. Especially now, seeing as her Wall of Pain is nerfed due to being able to airdodge multiple times.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I agree with the Pk Love and Pk rockin final smashes. What would be cool would be if they added Poo as a playable character and gave HIM Pk Starstorm. Anyways, I think that giving Falco the arwing would be cool. Wolf's new final smash would be calling his team to attack the opponent in their wolfens. Wolfens. Is there a plural for wolfen? Anyway, I think Toon Link's final smash should be the Whirlwind attack, or whatever it's called. You know, the move you get from Orca if you give him 10 knight's crests? I also think Marth's Final Smash is WAY too over powered, however, I've never played Fire Emblem, so I can't suggest a substitute. Peach, instead of getting that BS final smash, should instead have a final smash where she calls a bunch of Toads to beat up the enemy, like Dedede's final smash.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I would probably change Kirby's. The Cook ability represents him well, but why not use the Crash ability? The Cook ability is too easy to dodge...Also, I agree about the Starfox character's Final Smashes. Would it be too hard to have some originality? Same for the two Links and Lucas and Ness.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemac View Post
    Anyways, I think that giving Falco the arwing would be cool. Wolf's new final smash would be calling his team to attack the opponent in their wolfens. Wolfens. Is there a plural for wolfen?
    Falco gets a Arwing, as Megaron pointed out. NIntendo shouldn't have given Wolf a Landmaster to begin with. He shouldn't get a Wolfen either, because then someone would say, "Isn't that copying Falco's FS?" I think that it would be better for Wolf to get a Demon Rocket found in StarFox Assault in Multiplayer mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemac View Post
    Anyway, I think Toon Link's final smash should be the Whirlwind attack, or whatever it's called. You know, the move you get from Orca if you give him 10 knight's crests?
    The Hurricane Spin? I don't think so. If you remember, Link gets a recoil after the attack that would benefit other players more than Link. Especially if opponents never get touched. He should summon the black pig Toon Link should have the Light Arrow, because he uses it in WW a bit more. Zelda could have the Triforce summoned an wreak havoc, and Link could switch into the wolf.

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemac View Post
    I also think Marth's Final Smash is WAY too over powered, however, I've never played Fire Emblem, so I can't suggest a substitute.
    Marth kills himself a lot when he misses if you don't know how to stop it, so I think it evens out.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    The problem I have with a lot of final smashes is that they simply don't fit the characters. Take Mario's, for example. Forget that its all around terrible... How does it suit Mario at all? Mario is Nintendo's richest series, its got a 26 year history full of stuff to pull from, and they made up this nonsensical and lame fireball thing. Mario could have literally anything else and it would fit his character so much more. Imagine he got something like the Hammer Bro Suit. Mario could get hammers in his attacks, giving him a lot of added knockback and range. He could duck to reflect projectiles back as they bounce off his shell. This would be more in vein with final smashes like Warioman, and it would pull from something in Mario's vast history to actually fit him and represent something from his games.

    Considering that, its kind of awful that all of the Mario characters (with the Mushroom logo, that is) have horrible final smashes that don't fit them at all. Luigi could have had something involving the Poltergust or his fear of ghosts, maybe even a Professor E. Gadd cameo. Barring a reference to his own game, he too could use one of the many Mario powerups that could have served as a final smash. Peach had her own game that focused on emotions as a weapon... Why not do something involving that? Bowser could have had his clowncopter or the Koopalings invading, or even some kind of airship assault. The Mario series really got ripped off, which is ridiculous considering that its Nintendo's primary franchise. It has so much to draw from and yet, none of it was taken into account and we instead got a ton of BS.


    People can complain about what happened with the Mother and Starfox characters, but at least their final smashes came from their own games... Freaking Super Mario couldn't even get that kind of treatment, I would take "cloned" final smashes over made up nonsense any day of the week.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I don't understand why people think Link's final smash is bad. I think it fits him perfectly. He doesn't need to change into a damn dog for peets sake. He's a warrior. Sure he turned into a wolf but if you think Link you are reminded of Zelda and the Triforce. Link's final smash is fine the way it is.

    The only one i'd want to change are the land masters. I think the final smashes actually fit everyone really well [aside from the landmasters and pk star storm in a way]. I don't see any reason to change them at all.
    People say a final smash is cheep, that shouldn't mean it has to be removed entirely.Just nerf it.
    answer me this, what else could you do for Sonic, nothing that's what. Super Sonic is the only thing that he really has. Sure it's cheep but just nerf it a little, don't take out the whole move. Mario's fireball isn't that cool looking. Does a smash have to look cool. So long as it's effective and gets the job done. great ather isn't a move, well no it's not but they had to come up with something an it looks cool and gets the job done.

    There really is nothing wrong with the moves themselves they just need a little tweaking like knock back, damage, power, all that stuff

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by iRoyBoy View Post
    I don't understand why people think Link's final smash is bad. I think it fits him perfectly. He doesn't need to change into a damn dog for peets sake. He's a warrior. Sure he turned into a wolf but if you think Link you are reminded of Zelda and the Triforce. Link's final smash is fine the way it is.
    This argument actually works if, and only if, you are to assume that the Link in Smash Bros. is a representation of all Links that ever existed, but this is not the case, several of his moves point to the fact that this is Link from Twilight Princess, and the Triforce serves an almost bare minimum in Twilight Princess, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for that to be a full finishing move, especially when there's an entire game with several additions to the series that it has to pull things from. I personally would do something with the Double Clawshot, but the next one will most likely star SS Link, so it doesn't matter much now.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    You know one that should change? Kirby's. It's mot only hard to not get attacked by, but you have to use the items you want to use bnefore hand or they're gone. The replacements would be:

    A. Super Ability from Kirby's Return to Dreamland
    This not only looks epic, but it totally defines Kirby! He's all about Copy Abilities. Why focus on just one?

    OR
    B. Triple Star Rod from various games
    This defines Kirby as well. He uses it as an ability for only his toughest opponents. Why not use it here?

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I agree with lightningboalt, for the most part. I think Giga Bowser is the perfect final smash for him. I mean, ever since Melee came out, people have been hacking the game just so they can play as him! I think that R.O.B had a really underwelming final smash. I mean, it doesn't even look like a final smash! They should've gotten him to fire off a huge barrage of rockets, a la Jeff. Jigglypuff's final smash... hmmm...... there isn't really a whole lot of options, considering it doesn't learn too many powerful attacks. Maybe evolving into Wigglytuff? I dunno. King Dedede's final smash should've been the Masked form of him from Super Star Ultra. Unfortunately, that game was released after brawl, so it wouldn't be possible. Yoshi's final smash should've been throwing giant eggs like in the final battle of Yoshi's Island. Luigi's final smash..... it would be cool if he summoned a huge ammount of boos. However, that would be illogical, seeing as how the boos are his enemies. Olimar's final smash should've been using the ultra spicy spray to power up his pikmin, while using the ultra bitter spray to turn his opponents to stone. I still stick with the hurricane spin from Wind Waker for Toon Link, as he doesn't have to have the recoil in this game. You CAN change things about a character's moves, though. And to make it clear, Falco's final smash would be controlling the arwing, while Wolf's would be calling his team, like Pit's final smash.
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Kirby: I just hate Cook Kirby. Why not use Crash ability, or maybe Grand Hammer or Ultra Sword
    Falco: I agree, and Arwing would work much better.
    Ness: I also agree, PSI Rockin.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Keep in mind Lucas already has PK Love in his repertoire--It's his up smash.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    I don't why people rave about how Marth's final smash is so good and how Metaknight's is so bad.

    Why?

    Marth telegraphs the move so obviously. If you can't take a cue from the fact that the camera zooms in on him before he charges, then you deserve to get hit by it. Are you freaking out too much to realize that you can simply hold the shield button and mash down(sidestep) and you will avoid it most of the time? I think you are.

    Metaknight on the other hand is not as obvious. For one, the camera doesn't zoom in on him, and the cape comes out very quickly. Pretty much anyone stunned by the cape WILL get hit and it will KO at around 40%. How is this bad? Just because you have to get up close?

    Mario's is horrible because it doesn't have any knockback. All I need to do is hold my control stick against the wave of fireballs and I'll be barely scratched with nothing to fear. My record lowest damage is 3% from the final smash, though I've gotten 5 and 7% times before too.

    Lightningboalt mentions the idea of how REPRESENTATIVE final smashes are more of a problem and frankly I'd have to agree(though I'd actually like Final Smashes that are useful too). Let's take a look at Final Smashes that have nothing at all to do with the universe the character comes from.
    1. Mario's
    2. Peach's
    3. Luigi's
    4. Bowser's (Melee marked the only other appearance of Giga Bowser)
    5. Meta Knight's
    6. King Dedede's (arguable)
    7. Ice Climbers (admittedly there wasn't much else to work off of)
    8. Samus
    9. Zero Suit Samus
    10. Link
    11. Toon Link
    12. Wolf (arguable)
    13. Lucario
    14. Jigglypuff
    15. Pokemon Trainer
    16. Ike (at least use something from Radiant Dawn, not something made up like this)


    Did I forget a few? Either way, isn't this like, about half the cast? Something's wrong here.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by littlemac View Post
    Jigglypuff's final smash... hmmm...... there isn't really a whole lot of options, considering it doesn't learn too many powerful attacks. Maybe evolving into Wigglytuff? I dunno.
    Seeing how Final Smashes reset, it is impossible for a pokemon to unevolve. A Wigglytuff can't go back to a Jigglypuff.


    Quote Originally Posted by littlemac View Post
    And to make it clear, Falco's final smash would be controlling the arwing, while Wolf's would be calling his team, like Pit's final smash.
    Then wouldn't Wolf be copying Pit? Isn't the point of changing Wolf's FS is so that he wont be similar to anyone?
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  19. #19
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    There's nothing wrong with having some final smashes that are rather similar to one another. Look at Sonic and Pikachu, for example; its essentially the same thing, only Sonic's is overpowered as all hell whereas Pikachu's is much less threatening.

    Falco should have an Arwing and Wolf should have a Wolfen. They could be more or less the same thing but with something different about what they do, sort of like how all three Star Fox characters have very similar B moves but they all have very distinct variations on the theme that makes them their own character. In a situation like this, I can definitely understand a "clone" final smash. The way it currently is, with Landmasters, screams of laziness, but in the case of Falco and Wolf, them having a similar one frankly makes sense and suits them best. Possible solution to differentiate them? Falco's could be more mobile and able to do interesting maneuvers like barrel rolls and somersaults, whereas Wolf could have Leon and Panther also come in and attack as well. Make it so that you can stand on top of the Arwings to try and avoid them, but this leads to:
    • In Falco's situation, he could do a barrel roll to knock you off and then do a somersault to fly around and either ram you or start shooting you again
    • In Wolf's situation, his fellow Star Wolf members try to gun you down off of his ship.
    • Or in both situations, you can try to fly off the screen to kill them



    In the end, it comes down to needing the SSB4 team to actually want to put effort into the game, rather than halfassing things. I'd love to see Final Smashes be a bit more balanced while remaining useful, and having them either transition into some kind of meter system or making Smash Balls actually make sense rather than sometimes requiring tons of pummeling to break or sometimes requiring just one jab. As it is right now, Final Smashes are imbalanced, rarely represent the character in question, and when it comes to getting them there's little to no sense behind how you break the smash ball or even how often it gets knocked out of you.
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  20. #20
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Lightningboalt mentions the idea of how REPRESENTATIVE final smashes are more of a problem and frankly I'd have to agree(though I'd actually like Final Smashes that are useful too). Let's take a look at Final Smashes that have nothing at all to do with the universe the character comes from.
    1. Jigglypuff
    2. Pokemon Trainer
    I don't really agree with those two, though I guess it depends on how you look at it.
    Jigglypuff is a balloon Pokemon and has been shown to be able to inflate and deflate in the Stadium games. Though it didn't damage the enemy and was only an idle animation. But Rest was never a damaging attack in the main games, so I'm not too picky about this detail.
    A variant of Pokemon Trainer's Triple Finish was used in Pokemon Special, I believe it happened during the FR/LG arc. SSB uses some elements from the Pokemon anime, so it wouldn't surprise if they took this idea from the manga.
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  21. #21
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    -Donkey Kong could use an FS that doesn't screw him over in autoscrolling arenas. How about a Rambi ride?
    -Jigglypuff's wouldn't be so bad if the inflation worked a lot faster.
    -The Pokemon Trainer should have the trio firing in three directions at once.
    -R.O.B.... oh, heck, there's any number of options for a robot. Maybe transform into a Master or Crazy Hand doppelganger. Too much?
    -Someone from the Mario Kart series could use a thunderbolt, hurting and shrinking (but not directly smashing) everyone else for a while.
    -If you really want to change Sonic, the best alternative I have to offer is Chaos Blast. Sure, that's Shadow's thing, but if Zelda could take Link's goddess powers...
    -Ganondorf's FS is fine as is, but I wouldn't mind seeing him use a dark-magical ground smash like in OoT. Of course, that sounds easy to avoid if he doesn't get a substantial speed boost. Maybe use one of his TWW puppets instead? (He'd be out of the picture like Snake.)

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Lightningboalt mentions the idea of how REPRESENTATIVE final smashes are more of a problem and frankly I'd have to agree(though I'd actually like Final Smashes that are useful too). Let's take a look at Final Smashes that have nothing at all to do with the universe the character comes from.
    [*]Meta Knight's
    he never actually uses it in a game, true, but it's still very much like him. if you must be picky, a screenwide mach tornado like in super star ultra could work, or galaxia sword beam from the anime.

    [*]King Dedede's (arguable)
    he really doesn't have many powerful attacks from the games that he doesn't get in his normal moveset. and he is the king. the only other thing i can think of is a transformation a la wario man where he gets his mask and super hammer from revenge of the king.

    [*]Lucario
    dude. it's a hadouken pokemon. if it wants to go all kamehameha on everyone i'm not going to argue.

    [*]Jigglypuff
    it's fitting for a balloon pokemon, although you're right in that i've never seen her actually use it as an attack. i, personally, would have liked a super-rest move, where everyone goes to sleep and jiggly restores health, and everyone else is slowly damaged. then jiggly wakes up earlier than everyone else and is free to either let them continue taking slow damage or use the opportunity to smack them around.

    [*]Pokemon Trainer
    no, i can definitely see this happening in the anime and it DID happen in the manga.

    and lol how did you forget pikachu? pikachu never does anything even remotely close to "giant electric swirly ball". an actual volt tackle would have been more appropriate.
    Last edited by sxizzor; November 13th, 2011 at 07:27 AM.

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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    he never actually uses it in a game, true, but it's still very much like him. if you must be picky, a screenwide mach tornado like in super star ultra could work, or galaxia sword beam from the anime.
    The big point is that Metaknight had more untapped moves from Squeak Squad and Superstar that could totally have worked. You've just suggested a few alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    he really doesn't have many powerful attacks from the games that he doesn't get in his normal moveset. and he is the king. the only other thing i can think of is a transformation a la wario man where he gets his mask and super hammer from revenge of the king.
    Although Super Star Ultra came out afterward, that still doesn't prevent a beefed up Dedede like you'd face in Dreamland 2/3 when he's being possessed by the evil stuff from being possible. It'd also be a nice nod toward those entries in the series as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    dude. it's a hadouken pokemon. if it wants to go all kamehameha on everyone i'm not going to argue.
    The problem is that the only "kamehameha" moves in Pokemon are several of the beam attacks, and I'm not seeing this being called something liek "Hyper Beam" or whatever, no, this is "Aura Storm", a move that's already mentioned by Sakurai to be made up.

    [source]

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    it's fitting for a balloon pokemon, although you're right in that i've never seen her actually use it as an attack. i, personally, would have liked a super-rest move, where everyone goes to sleep and jiggly restores health, and everyone else is slowly damaged. then jiggly wakes up earlier than everyone else and is free to either let them continue taking slow damage or use the opportunity to smack them around.
    To also address Giygas' point on this, basically the problem is that this feels lazy and rushed. The "Super Rest" move would have seemed more fitting, but LOL PEACH, so I suppose they ran out of thoughts to play with. If you wanted to reference Pokemon here, you could totally have done Metronome to recreate one of several powerful Pokemon attacks, or to recreate a few Final Smashes already put into the game if they want to recycle things even more here.

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    no, i can definitely see this happening in the anime and it DID happen in the manga.
    To also address Giygas on this, are we really going to be referencing the manga with these attributes? Is this what I'm getting from the responses, that Triple Finish seems much more appropriate than an individualized move for each pokemon for the Trainer?

    Quote Originally Posted by sxizzor View Post
    and lol how did you forget pikachu? pikachu never does anything even remotely close to "giant electric swirly ball". an actual volt tackle would have been more appropriate.
    Wasn't that labelled as Volt Tackle? Volt Tackle can actually be learned by Pikachu.

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  24. #24
    Rainbow Scout TheDarkDee's Avatar
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    At this point in the Pokemon series (2011), the triple finish would make sense. But, scince Brawl was released in 2008, the triple finish makes no sense. So, depending on the gen, triple finish can make sense.

    Spell-check is overrated.

  25. #25
    Goodnight, Vietnam Forum Veteran Taigiry's Avatar
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    Re: If you could change a Final Smash...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    To also address Giygas on this, are we really going to be referencing the manga with these attributes? Is this what I'm getting from the responses, that Triple Finish seems much more appropriate than an individualized move for each pokemon for the Trainer?
    I never said that it's more appropriate. I would've prefered an unique FS for each of them and having a combined beam of the three elements is generic, but I was just stating the fact that it did happen in the Manga.
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