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Thread: Fire Emblem

  1. #701
    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenore View Post
    Okay, so I finally finished FE7 for the first (but certainly not the last!) time.
    I expected you to restart much more on the last chapter, honestly. I suppose playing through Sacred Stones first helped you figure out the tactical importance of some units and a good idea of what to do(and what not to do) in the games.

    I recall restarting a good amount(
    roughly 20-30 or so while trying to figure out the order of the doors unlocking AND how to deal with them - Uhai, Ursula and the Reed brothers happened to be the worst for me
    ) on that chapter, especially when I couldn't rearrange my units starting positions the traditional way. Nooo, I had to rearrange them in the order they showed up on the unit list, which I think that was stupid.

    As Ark mentioned, you can't play something up that you didn't pursue.

    The final boss takes extra damage from all the legendary weapons that Athos managed to carry all the way there. Think about the connection here(
    The Sundering war
    ) - though I suppose only Athos and Hector normally would be able to double the stupid thing, considering how heavy these weapons all are... and how Athos would be better off using Luna anyway. That's 30 damage every time.

    Are you picking favorites in units in terms of appearance or personality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    The final battle can be completely trivialized by Athos and his insane magic stat. Really, just make sure you have a decent staff user (and hey, Athos works) to Berserk enemy units (and I guess Warp and Rescue if you want faster completion or want to pull some units out of trouble).
    Isn't Athos supposed to be there as a failsafe, just in case all your other units can't handle the overwhelming power of the units in the final chapter? I want to say you get something of this sort in every Fire Emblem game, though the only other parallel I can think of really is Path of Radiance(Kings).
    Admittedly, you're not quickly surrounded by very powerful units in several of the other FE games final chapters - as far as I can think of, anyway. Most of the other final chapters that come to mind give you several turns to prepare for such an event if it'd happen.

    I mean, look at the guy. Capped magic, extreme proficiency in all the weapons he can use, and comes with two legendary weapons that he can use. Naturally, the game doesn't tell you to move the other legendary weapons off of him.

    (I still like how Elibe's legendary weapons can break >_>)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    Ninian and Nils can either be the most useless units in the game, or if you decide to put some thought into using them, they can be some of the best. If you think ahead before sending them right into the field of battle, they can effectively double as another staff user, rescuer, or combatant and still maintain their flexibility as they don't have to commit to these roles. Also, Ninian and Nils have rings which can buff other units either through Ninian's Grace (+10 def and res) or Filla's Might (+10 atk). There are other rings, but those don't really matter unless you like avoid and crit, I guess.
    They're very tactical units. Buffs or being able to act again are very valuable tools to a character, and something that's very underlooked by a lot of players. Giving a unit the power to move again in a game like this is amazingly powerful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Gold View Post
    I didn't want to mention this when you brought up the cutscene before, but I think they tried a bit too hard at something here and left an unintentional clue in what they did. In the scene where
    Ninian dies
    , the text moves very slowly, automatically, and can't be skipped. They put every effort into having you focus on this moment so you can't miss it. When I saw this the first time, I thought, "Hmm, why are they driving this home so hard, especially when
    so many minor characters could have died by this point
    ? I wonder if
    she's going to be revived later
    ?" When the very next story dialogue sequence started with nothing but the words, "
    Ninian is dead.
    ", I thought, "Yep. Absolutely. I will bet you dollars to donuts that
    she will be revived later
    ."

    So yeah, I kind of feel like hitting you over the head so hard with it was a tip off that they needed you to know this so they could do something with it later. And it does make it that much more annoying when you can't skip it on future playthroughs. ("Well, bro, we're at this scene again. So, how 'bout that [unrelated series here]?")
    For me...

    The moment was entirely ruined for me because I had an A-level support between Eliwood and Ninian. Eliwood's character page STILL SHOWED AN A-SUPPORT WITH NINIAN EVEN AFTER THAT SCENE, telling me that something was up. I think this was intentional, considering "Ninian" becomes "Nils" gameplaywise, though I can see reason to this being very lazy programming. Either way, the surprise was ruined for me as well.


    Not to mention the blatant Deus Ex Machina going on with Ninian's revival AND the... ugh. Yeah. Not fond of that plot device either. She just up and kills two dragons like it's nothing and leaves you to the last one, which, incidentally does a set amount of damage no matter how much armor/resistance you have. I believe it's intentionally set so that you will get two shotted at the best, and you have to go through ridiculous measures in order to dodge their attacks. The fact that Ninian was able to take out two of these dragons either is underplaying their power, or making Ninian into more of a Mary Sue.
    Last edited by Eltrotraw; April 30th, 2012 at 09:26 PM.

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  2. #702
    Achtung, baby! Today, we play it my way! Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Isn't Athos supposed to be there as a failsafe, just in case all your other units can't handle the overwhelming power of the units in the final chapter? I want to say you get something of this sort in every Fire Emblem game, though the only other parallel I can think of really is Path of Radiance(Kings).

    I mean, look at the guy. Capped magic, extreme proficiency in all the weapons he can use, and comes with two legendary weapons that he can use. Naturally, the game doesn't tell you to move the other legendary weapons off of him.

    (I still like how Elibe's legendary weapons can break >_>)
    The first Fire Emblem started up the Gotoh archetype (named after, you've guessed it, Gotoh), which is yeah, a failsafe unit with insane bases and growths (the latter of which usually doesn't matter since they're either high-leveled or at the level cap like Athos). Other members of the Gotoh archetype would include
    Sety
    from FE5 and
    Karel
    from FE6.

    And even if you decide not to make use of Athos, it's still easy to use someone like Pent or a promoted Erk to screw around with staves. Hell, even Renault could do it, but he'd have a much harder time since his low magic means he'd have less range.

    (And ahaha, that still keeps me laughing)

  3. #703
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    The first Fire Emblem started up the Gotoh archetype (named after, you've guessed it, Gotoh), which is yeah, a failsafe unit with insane bases and growths (the latter of which usually doesn't matter since they're either high-leveled or at the level cap like Athos). Other members of the Gotoh archetype would include
    Sety
    from FE5 and
    Karel
    from FE6.
    Seeing how I haven't beaten either of those(quit before those points) I can see how the latter worked, though I forgot about the former altogether. But at least I was right with the Kings, right?
    >__>

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    And even if you decide not to make use of Athos, it's still easy to use someone like Pent or a promoted Erk to screw around with staves. Hell, even Renault could do it, but he'd have a much harder time since his low magic means he'd have less range.
    I especially like how since he's old his HP's capped at a really low number. It's not as easy with those two since they're not always guaranteed to cap magic, and Pent really requires his wife for maximum effectiveness, which is... yeah. Pent's not so bad, but Louise is so forgettable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    (And ahaha, that still keeps me laughing)
    Jugdral's weapons were able to break too, but they had more than 20 uses.

    It's especially horrible since I know the Sword of Seals also has 20 uses.

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  4. #704
    year of the salmon Lady of the Arena Lenore's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    @Lenore: On the subject of the plot point that you weren't too fond of,
    I think the fact that Ninian is left to leave the human world is pretty emotional. And if you're wondering why the Ninian/Eliwood romance wasn't played up, it's because you didn't support them. Why would they play up a romance when you could have supported Eliwood with some other chick (Hector counts as a chick)?
    Well, in my defence, I was working on the Hector/Eliwood support from very early on in the plot, before I even knew about that romancething. Next run for sure, though. Absolutely definitely.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    I remember I was largely just shocked that
    Ninian (or any major character who you got to use through much of the game) died in the first place.
    Honestly for me, I just flat out didn't expect anything like that to happen, but I did think that
    she would actually remain dead and not become Mary Sue, dragon destroying dragon
    . I really enjoyed FE7's plot overall though, I think it's a well done story and fortunately none of the characters are on Sacred Stones level of sucking. I thought Eliwood was a little bit weak, but he had some decent enough development and even though
    Ninian becomes Mary Sue at the end, I thought for the most part she was pretty decent if also bland
    . They actually had a good batch of leads who all played off of one another really well, and on top of that the villains were all interesting as well. I loved the Black Fang, they were an interesting group and certainly felt like more of a threat than Grado's armies and then the legions of undead that you fight... which in retrospect is massively disappointing, I don't care HOW talented these mercenaries are, they shouldn't be more challenging than an undead horde and a professional army from the most feared military power in the world. The villains of FE7 become even more interesting in Hector mode, particularly some special parts of the backstory that you get to see. The extra bits of backstory that Hector mode reveals in our friend Mr. Big Bad himself (spoilered just for people who haven't played even Eliwood mode,
    Nergal
    ) make him even more interesting as well as a few other characters:
    Spoiler: Pretty Massive Spoilers 



    Man, now I have to play FE7 again. God, I just have to play all of my FE games again and then play some of the others too, I am NEVER finishing this backlog ; -;
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  6. #706
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Elincia (FE9/10) is the next DLC character.

    I dunno the artist's name yet, but it's not like anyone here cared about that huh :E

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    Sinking, falling, fallen Lord of the Arena Dynawing's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Heeey I'd care!

    Sort of.


    I'm liking all these redesigns so far, although I do think that Elincia's normal armor looked nicer on her. I dunno, the horn and everything makes this look kinda un... queenly, but I do like how it's sorta mixing her orange dress with the white armor too.

    Of course I'm mainly wondering why she's using a spear. If they're putting her in as a Falconknight and not a custom class I suppose that makes sense, but then what about Amiti? Unless they want her to use swords, lances, and staves I dunno


    Also FE7 is great but I still haven't even started Hector Mode. I started a hard mode file earlier, but I started in Lyn's story and I don't think I can go on to Hector mode like that so I guess I'll have to start over. Maybe.

    And personally I didn't actually dislike
    Ninian at all and I'd imagine I'd be pretty moved even if I didn't set up Eliwood/Ninian. The part at the end where she blows up two of the dragons is still sorta weird, though it didn't really make her much of a "mary sue" to me. Although they honestly could've just pulled out one dragon, and maybe Ninian could've weakened it or something, if she really had to.
    Last edited by Dynawing; May 2nd, 2012 at 04:28 PM.

  8. #708
    Achtung, baby! Today, we play it my way! Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    The only part of Elincia's new look that throws me off is the horn. All of the bright colors, especially the gold, give off a pretty regal appearance, so I'm liking it. I was thinking that maybe all of the redesigned DLC characters would get a custom class like Marth, but the fact that Elincia has a lance in that picture makes me doubt that. Oh well, just have to wait for these redesigned DLC characters to actually be released first.

    And Dyna, you can go onto Hector Mode from Lyn Mode.

  9. #709
    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    I'm thinking the horn is supposed to go alongside her seeing how she'll likely be on a Falcoknight(remember, they're slated to be able to use spears and staves). It looks a lot like the circlet she wore when she was on her pegasus in Tellius, just with the extra space to add the horn on it.

    Which appears to be the big debatable factor regarding Elincia's new appearance. I don't mind the horn so I like it overall.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Elincia's design looks pretty good, though it's still strange that she has her own special sword and yet she's apparently just going to be a standard-fare Falcoknight. That's really the only thing that bothers me about her, an element of her character is just taken out purely for convenience's sake? I also still find it really strange that Ike hasn't been announced yet, and here we have both Micaiah and Elincia, two other lord-type characters from the Tellius games, announced way before Ike. In the Micaiah reveal it looked like Ike was a boss fight, and in the Elincia reveal we see Ike again (as for what his role is, who knows... and is that the map from Light?). I mean it's pretty much a guarantee that Ike will be DLC at some point, he shows up in both the Micaiah and Elincia DLC from the looks of things and there's no way they wouldn't put him in when he's one of the characters they could easily make the most money off of... just interesting to me that he wasn't one of the first lords to show off.
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  11. #711
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Maybe they left out Ike because
    the epilogue of FE10 says he wandered off and none of his Tellius acquaintances heard from him again
    .

    I agree that messing with Elincia's moves that much was silly, tho.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    I'm actually rather fond of Elincia's new design. It certainly suits her, though the class change was unexpected. Oh well, let's hope at least her stat growths remain the same.

    and if Ike isn't released for DLC I will be extremely surprised especially considering that Roy got in, and we all know how bad his game performed.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Deckard Canine View Post
    Maybe they left out Ike because
    the epilogue of FE10 says he wandered off and none of his Tellius acquaintances heard from him again
    .

    I agree that messing with Elincia's moves that much was silly, tho.
    I really don't think they'd keep Ike out for his epilogue because if that's the case,
    don't expect Hector any time soon
    . Or, to use an example like that who is already confirmed,
    Sigurd
    . They'd be stupid to keep Ike out, both from a storyline and monetary perspective. Story wise,
    if they're keeping the appearances of the DLC characters as canon, then Ike's reasoning for never being seen again is the fact that he ends up in Awakening
    . That one I can't talk about too much because I've been avoiding Awakening spoilers so I don't know if the DLC has any storyline ramifications at all or if they're just there because why not, bonuses are fun. As for monetary reasons... this is paid DLC, and Ike is by far the character they'd get the most money from purchases, being easily the most popular FE Lord worldwide (largely due to Ike's exposure, Brawl certainly helps in that regard).
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    Phonetics do wonders. Forum Moderator Eltrotraw's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Do not forget that we're probably disregarding canon here, Deckard Canine's idea becomes even more moot.

    For instance, for Micaiah's DLC content, why is Ike the boss? Haven't they already met? Haven't they already been friends?

    Or also shown with the Elincia DLC content, why is she talking to Ike in a setting similar to FE7's final chapter?

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  15. #715
    year of the salmon Lady of the Arena Lenore's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Hey so guys I finally finished my SS draft run!
    ...wait what do you mean everyone else has been done for months :c

    Anyway, my final turncount was 267. I'm happyish enough with this, considering I hadn't touched Sacred Stones (let alone any Fire Emblem game) before December, and I was making my picks off one not-even-complete run at the time. I did bungle some of my weapon/staff choices (like how I'm absolutely convinced I sold off a Fortify staff near the end before I knew how damn good they were, although my memory's kinda sketchy so shh), but at least I know better now. I lost two units in the last chapter, annoyingly enough - Knoll got tag-teamed by stupid centaurs with longbows, and &&&&ing Fomortiis critted on Artur - but oh well, it's not like it really mattered too much at that point. who cares because Innes survived

    In terms of units... well, it's been a while, so I can't really remember all that much. Got Franz to level 20/20 (as a Paladin) far too early, but I'd definitely have to name Gerik as my MVP. Seriously, this guy is incredible. A huge tank. Not a completely atrocious character. And yes! Probably followed by Artur, since he absolutely destroyed everything once promoted. And staves yes yes.

    (Ark does this mean you can get us the results now, I know you already won but shut up)

  16. #716
    Achtung, baby! Today, we play it my way! Forum Veteran Ark's Avatar
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    (okay)

    1: Ark: 193 turns (Vanessa, Moulder, Garcia, Kyle, Saleh, Syrene)

    2: Lenore: 267 turns (Franz, Artur, Gerik, Innes, Duessel, Knoll)

    3: Doof: 330something turns (Ross, Amelia, L’Arachel, Tana, Dozla, Rennac)

    4: Dyna: 368 turns (Lute, Neimi, Natasha, Marisa, Forde, Tethys)

    5: Aurelite: lost his game (Joshua, Gilliam, Colm, Ewan, Cormag, Myrrh)

    Spoiler: rules for whoever wants to see them 

    If this ever happens again, runs should have to be finished within a month tops.
    Last edited by Ark; May 6th, 2012 at 03:06 PM.

  17. #717
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    I just got fire emblem: radiant dawn last week and its awesome. I just cant wait to unlock Ike


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    Re: Fire Emblem

    hrmm, Ephraim. ephraim is lame. Eirika is better >:c


    now gimme lyn

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Ark View Post
    If this ever happens again, runs should have to be finished within a month tops.
    Big "if". Who's interested in another one, out of curiosity?

    Or what game?

    Quote Originally Posted by luigiguy78 View Post
    I just got fire emblem: radiant dawn last week and its awesome. I just cant wait to unlock Ike
    "Unlock" Ike? You make it sound like it's a fighting game that way or something.

    Of course, that happens after having to go through the Dawn Brigade, but whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos Wilder View Post
    hrmm, Ephraim. ephraim is lame. Eirika is better >:c


    now gimme lyn
    They didn't do so bad with the Ephraim redesign. Retains Ephraim's general appearance while giving him a shield(so I'm guessing he'll be a soldiertype).

    I like it.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Big "if". Who's interested in another one, out of curiosity?

    Or what game?
    I'd like to participate in a draft run. FE7 or 6 would be cool.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos Wilder View Post
    hrmm, Ephraim. ephraim is lame. Eirika is better >:c


    now gimme lyn
    I freaking love Ephraim, he's one of the few lords/main characters I know that use a lance.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by DededeMan202 View Post
    I freaking love Ephraim, he's one of the few lords/main characters I know that use a lance.
    Agreed, Ephraim's definitely a total boss.

    Does he use (one of) his signature lance(s)? Not exactly sure how the DLC works.

  23. #723
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Big "if". Who's interested in another one, out of curiosity?

    Or what game?
    I'd be up for FE7 sometime. Key word there being "sometime", like when I wouldn't weigh everyone down with my schedule. :\

    Also, not incredibly keen on Ephraim - although he's still better than Eirika, who's just awful - but it is a pretty a cool redesign. He looks pretty mad, haha.

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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenore View Post
    He looks pretty mad, haha.
    Really? I though Ephraim looked melancholy, like something is disturbing him. Perhaps he is reflecting on his decision to kill someone formerly close to him.
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    Rune's whole thing is shovels. So yeah, he'd be able to find a way.
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    Tornado Remix Lightningdork
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    Re: Fire Emblem

    Quote Originally Posted by Eltrotraw View Post
    Big "if". Who's interested in another one, out of curiosity?

    Or what game?

    "Unlock" Ike? You make it sound like it's a fighting game that way or something.

    Of course, that happens after having to go through the Dawn Brigade, but whatever.

    They didn't do so bad with the Ephraim redesign. Retains Ephraim's general appearance while giving him a shield(so I'm guessing he'll be a soldiertype).

    I like it.
    Honestly I'd love to do a draft run, I'd do it with any game (though I'd prefer FE7 or PoR, SS and SD are mediocre and RD I would only want to replay again after I get through PoR again). It'd be a lot of fun, I would have participated last time around but I didn't have the most time on my hands (granted considering how long it took for the results to get in... maybe I could have been a part of it anyhow?).

    I'm glad it's Ephraim and not Eirika, at least. Ephraim's not very exciting but at least he's got some character development and he's interesting for being our only Lord who primarily (and only) uses Lances. I'm not a fan of either SS lord but I'd much prefer the one who is at least sort of interesting.
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