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Thread: Smash Bros NX

  1. #51
    Standing on the brink of insanity with one foot on a banana peel. TheMightyBox's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I mean, Metroid's music has always been more atmospheric than action-packed.
    Although Rundas and Gandraydah's themes could very easily be remixed to be a little faster and louder, and I mean Midna's Lament is still in the game so it's not that much of an excuse.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyBox View Post
    I mean, Metroid's music has always been more atmospheric than action-packed.
    Although Rundas and Gandraydah's themes could very easily be remixed to be a little faster and louder, and I mean Midna's Lament is still in the game so it's not that much of an excuse.
    You got a point about atmospheric.
    Thinking of action-packed songs, two do come to mind...
    Space Pirates Battle and Chozo Ghost Battle
    (The ghost battle is a bit repetitive considering those battles are pretty short, but the remix could fix that.)

    Oh yeah, there is also the Metroid Prime Essence Battle theme,
    gets a bit too distorted for my tastes, but I do like that intro.


    Though yeah, I personally don't mind slow paced tracks in Smash.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by Zant View Post
    At least Sonic does have pretty great music choices. Uh, if you're a fan of Sonic to begin with for I can't stand those lyrical songs, but the selection seems pretty great overall there.

    Contrast to Final Fantasy. There's been a ton of FF games for Nintendo consoles + FF7 and we get 2 songs and a guy with the &&&&tiest alt colours ever. Nice going, Square.

    Either way, Boalt summed up a lot of the issues with the soundtrack of this game. Shame it ain't the end of it. As mentioned before, the shortening of various songs that really should not have been shortened is also a dumb thing Sakurai did... Except for Dark Pits theme, which has both a shortened and normal lenght version of it in the game.

    Yeah... Glad we got that option with 1 theme but not any of the others. Not with ID Purpose, DK Rap, an earthbound song (smiles & tears?) or Engage the Enemy. Nah man, who even cares for those songs? Dark Pits theme, now that's the only one people would complain about if it'd been shortened. Glad Sakurai thought of that.

    Also another thing I don't get is remixes like Egg Planet, DKCR Rocket song, Yoshi Woolly World and Xenoblade Medley. They are basically identical to their originals, which also are in the game. So what's the point? That just leads to (even more) pointless music bloat. Like, the Egg Planet remix is subpar, but I'd rather have the remix and, say, the original Buoy Base over the same 2 darn songs.

    This is such a weird thing about Smash 4. If you put a magnifying glass on basically any of its features, be it the stages, items, characters, music, modes or online play, you will find so many stupid flaws and decisions that really makes no sense whatsoever to be in a game of this level.
    >disliking Live and Learn

    never speak to me again You are right though, there is a much better selection here (like City Escape and Rooftop Run Modern).

    Funny that you mention Square Enix, though. Sakurai said in an interview he had complete freedom to work with Cloud's design, compared to "other characters" he worked on. I'm not sure if he just felt Cloud would look out of place in brighter colors or what. I personally would've loved the KH1 outfit he wore, though maybe Disney has some rights over it. And maybe a black haired alt to make him look like Zack Fair (he wears pretty much the exact same outfit). As for the music I have no idea... Honestly Cloud seems kinda rushed, as if he were pushed out faster to satiate the wait for Corrin and Bayonetta or something. I mean, he has a Japanese VA despite his English VA still working. There was a theory about how he wasn't a Union VA or something but I'm not sure how much stock there was in that. It's possible he was too busy with FFVII Remake though.

    Either way it'd be nice if they got his English VA for a hypothetical NX version. And more songs. I'd love to hear A Timely Ambush (a remix of Let The Battles Begin!) and The Price of Freedom from Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII. Or even just One Winged Angel. How could you not have One Winged Angel?

  4. #54
    Clobberin Monster The Kirbinator's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    There also needs to be a pan-Final Fantasy medley (primarily consisting of Prelude (Crystal theme) and Prologue (main Final Fantasy theme)).

    Felyne from Monster Hunter could be added in as well, as there are no cats as playable fighters (excluding costumes or Mewtwo).
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  5. #55
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I've heard a lot of strange reasons for the adding of certain characters, but 'we need a cat' is a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by itsameluigi1290 View Post
    >disliking Live and Learn

    never speak to me again You are right though, there is a much better selection here (like City Escape and Rooftop Run Modern).

    Funny that you mention Square Enix, though. *snip*

    Either way it'd be nice if they got his English VA for a hypothetical NX version. And more songs. I'd love to hear A Timely Ambush (a remix of Let The Battles Begin!) and The Price of Freedom from Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII. Or even just One Winged Angel. How could you not have One Winged Angel?
    Live and learn is actually the only one I kind of like, haha. That intro is so awesome. the actual live and learn part though... ouch...

    Either way, that sounds weird. Sakurai having free reign with Cloud, yet choosing to give him awful alt colours. Almost as if he'd be afraid that if he'd change Cloud too much, despite having been given complete freedom, he would still somehow 'offend' Square if Cloud got a shirt that ain't black... Actually never mind, that sounds exactly like the type of thing Sakurai would be worried about.

  6. #56
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I think it's more that Cloud doesn't wear many brightly-coloured outfits in general. The only one I can think of is the Shinra Grunt uniform he wears in the late-game flashback, which is bright blue.

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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Even in Puzzle & Dragons does Cloud not wear brightly coloured outfits, despite the artists for that mobile game having complete artistic freedom as well: http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=2029 http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=2030 http://www.puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=2764

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  8. #58
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    All of Cloud's alt colors actually reference something; namely the different uniform colors of the SOLDIER classes/ranks. (Or custom colors, like Zack's 2nd Class uniform)
    This wiki link explains it in a bit more detail. http://supersmashbros.wikia.com/wiki...ap_(SSBWU/3DS)
    Last edited by Puzzle044; March 29th, 2016 at 12:47 AM.
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  9. #59
    It's happenng! Forum Veteran Taigiry's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kirbinator View Post
    We can't blame Sakurai for squandering his freedom.
    Actually, we can. One of the most important things in a game like Smash is visibility and you can't equate that to a simple puzzle game like P&D, which is a completely different genre and where your character is just a pretty pic, not someone you actively control. In a game like Smash it's important that you won't lose sight of your character and he, as the game's director of all people, should be aware of that. In fact, that not only goes for Smash, but every game.

    Look at how much flak Sonic gets because all of his costumes are just shades of blue (for the second time in a row, might I add). But in this case it can be assumed to be Sega's fault, we don't know for sure. But making the same mistake with Cloud, when he had complete freedom is silly. As I said above, visibility is one of the most important aspects, that's why motions tend to be exaggerated, so that the player knows what's happening. All those colorful slashes and enlarged limbs, they help to give the player proper feedback. Giving a character 8 costumes that look pretty much the same is the exact opposite, it only confuses the player and makes it easy to lose sight of your character, especially in a hectic game like Smash. It's relatively easy to differentiate classic from Advent Cloud, but when you have more than two of him and throw the colors into the mix, it turns into a visual nightmare.

    And let's be honest... Sakurai sucks when it comes to properly represents characters in Smash anyway, so why couldn't he at least make some adjustments for easier visibility? Like, at least make the colors brighter, so they don't all look like black. Final Fantasy fans would probably still think "that Cloud wears red, it's gotta be a reference to a rank". It definitely wouldn't be the worst thing about the representation of a character/franchise he's done, but that's for another time.

  10. #60
    Standing on the brink of insanity with one foot on a banana peel. TheMightyBox's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I mean, like, I kinda get why Sakurai did it, they are canon outfits that match the basic getup of his default but with different colors so I get why he'd go for those.

    But, yeah, the visibility thing is an issue and I can't help but wonder if it'd be better to go with something like what Lucina got, where his alternates could be based on other party members.


    Or since he's meant to represent the Final Fantasy series as a whole, what if he had the colors of other FF protagonists?

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    Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. ZORK's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyBox View Post
    I mean, Metroid's music has always been more atmospheric than action-packed.
    Although Rundas and Gandraydah's themes could very easily be remixed to be a little faster and louder, and I mean Midna's Lament is still in the game so it's not that much of an excuse.
    Yeah, I was also thinking that tracks like Rundas could work well as a template for a remix.

    Besides, even more atmospheric tracks can make for great remixes. The two tracks from Melee are good examples for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigiry View Post
    Like, at least make the colors brighter, so they don't all look like black. Final Fantasy fans would probably still think "that Cloud wears red, it's gotta be a reference to a rank".
    I agree on this, especially since the Advent Children variants look very same-y, but his regular outfit would've also benefitted from slightly more vibrant colours.

    The variants posted by TheMightyBox are a bit too colourful for my liking though.
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    Standing on the brink of insanity with one foot on a banana peel. TheMightyBox's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I mean if Meta-Knight can get a white and two pink costumes :0

    It's just an example (and I didn't even show you the Aerith one) to show that there are options that are similarly referntial and visually distinct.
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    I literally hate figurative literals. itsameluigi1290's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Can't say I like any of those fanmade alts aside from the Tifa one. Something about them looks off. Maybe just because they're fanmade?

  14. #64
    Shout out to the Wayback machine Ruane's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I actually like those fan-made alts since I can so easily distinguish between them. Granted, I have never played a Final Fantasy title so I don't know how jarring those color schemes might be on Cloud, but they do get the visibility job done and represent the series. Besides, if you want classic Cloud color schemes, use one of the standard Cloud color scheme.
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyBox View Post
    I mean if Meta-Knight can get a white and two pink costumes :0

    It's just an example (and I didn't even show you the Aerith one) to show that there are options that are similarly referntial and visually distinct.
    Meta-Knight hails from a franchise that is mostly bright colours, and although his main colours are somewhat dark, they are in comparison still very bright on some occasions (like the 2D Kirby games for the SNES, GBA and DS), so he can get away with those odd colours.

    It's just that I find these alts a bit too flashy in terms of color scheme. There are just too many colors on them, especially in odd places (like the weirdly coloured belts). The first one (I suppose it's based off Tifa?) looks good though.

    And to be frank, I'd be interested in the Aerith alt. From what I know, her outfit is mostly a single colour, so I think it could translate fairly well onto Cloud's outfit, especially the Advent Children one, I think.
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Eh, I see what you're saying, but I don't think the references would be obvious enough if the belts and pants were the same color.

    I did make an Aerith one, but I feel like I probably got carried away with the idea of "pink Cloud" and made it waaaaay too saturated.
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    It's happenng! Forum Veteran Taigiry's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I really like those alts above there that are based on the other party members. They are easy to distinguish and actually reference stuff from Cloud's game, which means these color schemes aren't 100% made up. That should be a win/win situation. Especially when taken into account that it doesn't necessarily have to mean that his Advent costume gets cut.

    Of course this is coming from someone who has never played FF7, but it actually makes me wonder how fans of Cloud/FF7 would've reacted if he had these costumes.

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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigiry View Post
    Of course this is coming from someone who has never played FF7, but it actually makes me wonder how fans of Cloud/FF7 would've reacted if he had these costumes.
    Shrug, even as a fan, I wouldn't really care too much.
    I mean it not like I need to like all the alt colors/costumes, just having one I like works for me.

    ...
    Though if you do want my critique on the six costumes posted... XD
    I like the first two, the rest... the colors clash too much.
    no.3 looks nice, but the silver straps are a bit much when contrasted with the metal solder pad.
    no. 4 & 5, much like no.3, the belt and strap colors are a bit too saturated. (the hair in no. 4 is a bit off as well.)
    no. 6 on the other hand, I think the outfit could work, but the pink hair looks too saturated, like the previous belts.

    ... So pretty much what ZORK said. XD
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    I literally hate figurative literals. itsameluigi1290's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    As someone who's played FFVII (and several other games with Cloud), I dunno. I feel like they're not subtle enough.

    Maybe it's just jarring due to how generally dark Cloud's outfits are across the FF universe, dress aside. I can kinda see why Sakurai would choose all the darker colors, though personally I wouldn't have done that either.

    I would've just made all his alts different costumes maybe? KH1, Disiddia 012, the outfit he wore when he had a gun, etc. I mean you could put the dress in too for the heck of it. Just maybe make them slightly brighter than usual, to fit more with Smash 4's more lively palette.

    Psh, Cloud isn't even my favorite FF character (Noel Kreiss is the BEST) and I'm doing this whole critique. Gee whiz.

    IDK maybe just mess with the saturation on those alts and they'll be fine.

  20. #70
    Standing on the brink of insanity with one foot on a banana peel. TheMightyBox's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I mean, I kinda specifically chose those as an example because they were so vibrant and easily distinguishable, there's also like,

    or

    which for the most part tone down the brighter colors because of who they're based on.

    Even then, the colors are a bit more saturated than they need to be because, I like saturated colors :0
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  21. #71
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    I like that first one in the above post quite a bit just for its colors alone. I know next to nothing about clod Cloud so *shruggle*.
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  22. #72
    Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. ZORK's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by Puzzle044 View Post
    Shrug, even as a fan, I wouldn't really care too much.
    Though if you do want my critique on the six costumes posted... XD
    I like the first two, the rest... the colors clash too much.
    no.3 looks nice, but the silver straps are a bit much when contrasted with the metal solder pad.
    no. 4 & 5, much like no.3, the belt and strap colors are a bit too saturated. (the hair in no. 4 is a bit off as well.)
    no. 6 on the other hand, I think the outfit could work, but the pink hair looks too saturated, like the previous belts.

    ... So pretty much what ZORK said. XD
    I'm not sure how well-established it's around here, but at least among my RL friends I'm somewhat infamous for giving lengthy explanations/answers even to the most mundane things/questions. So seeing that you actually made a more-detailed response to these costumes puts me to shame. XD

    What probably bothered me the most about these alts were the high number of different colours in various places, but I guess I'm only noticing this due to my own weird habits when it comes to creating characters in the Soulcalibur games (where I try to keep the number of colours as low as possible, using the same colours for various parts - good example is to use the same shade of brown for boots, belts, gloves and similiar objects). But yeah, the bright belts also clash too much with the shoulder pad. On a similiar note, the second one from the first batch (the green shirt... I think I know the character it's based off, but I don't remember her name since I never played FF VII...) looks also pretty nice, but the blue belts don't look good, and there are also at least three shades of brown on him.

    As for the second batch, the dark red shirt with dark green pants and the yellow shirt look pretty good, the bright red shirt looks also decent (in fact, I can even overlook the bright belts due to the rest of the palette being so dark on this outfit).
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  23. #73
    It's happenng! Forum Veteran Taigiry's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Gotta love how this turned into a Cloud thread, although there really isn't anything else to talk about anyway. Come to think of it, I think a thread discussing the representation of characters or franchises in general would be pretty interesting. Not sure how viable though, seeing as this place is... inactive, to put it nicely.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZORK View Post
    On a similiar note, the second one from the first batch (the green shirt... I think I know the character it's based off, but I don't remember her name since I never played FF VII...) looks also pretty nice, but the blue belts don't look good, and there are also at least three shades of brown on him.
    Pretty sure you're thinking of Yuffie here. I do kinda agree with you on the issue regarding the amount of brown tones being used. I think giving Cloud's boots the same shade as his gloves would be a slight improvement. In general though, I do like the color combination, including the blue.

  24. #74
    Clobberin Monster The Kirbinator's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Speaking of this becoming a Cloud thread, if he's going to be in Smash Bros. NX, then he should also be in PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale 2. This way, he would be the first character to appear in both competing series.

    Other characters who should appear in PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale 2 include Solid Snake, Toan (from Dark Cloud 1), and Max and Monica (both from Dark Cloud 2). Why? With the addition of Toan, Max, and Monica, there would be more teenaged characters (and both Dark Cloud games are developed by Level-5 (of Professor Layton fame) and published by Sony (making them second-party characters); both games also had PS4 re-releases as well).
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  25. #75
    Freedom is the right of all sentient beings. ZORK's Avatar
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    Re: Smash Bros NX

    Quote Originally Posted by Taigiry View Post
    Gotta love how this turned into a Cloud thread, although there really isn't anything else to talk about anyway. Come to think of it, I think a thread discussing the representation of characters or franchises in general would be pretty interesting. Not sure how viable though, seeing as this place is... inactive, to put it nicely.
    I'm a member in an Animexx Group dedicated to Smash, and I actually made a topic about franchise representation sometime after the reveal of Corrin and Bayonetta. Though the activity of that group is probably even worse than that of this forum.

    Pretty sure you're thinking of Yuffie here. I do kinda agree with you on the issue regarding the amount of brown tones being used. I think giving Cloud's boots the same shade as his gloves would be a slight improvement. In general though, I do like the color combination, including the blue.
    Thanks for the info. I'm pretty sure I recognize her from her cameo at the beginning of Kingdom Hearts. My only gripe with the blue belt is that the blue doesn't contrast the green that well in the Cloud alt, the two colours kind of blend into each other. If they were better differentiated from each other, it would look much better.


    I can't say much about Playstation All-Stars: Battle Royale, as I never really got interested into it due to a lack of familiarity with the IPs represented in it.
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