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Thread: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

  1. #26
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by NiGHTcapD View Post
    Boke...but I don't know when it is. I have to know when this is so as to know early.
    Oh dear, my bad. I forgot I only said the time for when signups end, not when the tourney starts. Well, the plan is to start right after signups end and when I posted the bracket in the main topic. I'll update this.

    A good idea though for you and the rest though: Communicate! If you see its your turn to fight someone, but you can't fight soon for whatever reasons, please do say so in this topic!

    It's perfectly fine you can't instantly fight someone else, of course, but if a week passes causing the tourney to halt, without either player providing clarity in this topic as to why they can't fight, then I probably won't be happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonSP View Post
    Gonna go ahead and post here that http://www.smashladder.com/ is a nice place for setting up matches. So long as both participants have accounts of course. It lets you fairly go through the whole pick/ban stages thing and also ensures that people don't get into endless character counterpicking loops.
    Hrm... I don't quite know how to word this, but wouldn't it still be easier to just have people stick to this place and communicate through VM's, PM's and this topic, and not on another site? I think I'll just use Challonge in the below post for the bracket business.
    Likewise I don't intend to limit folks to the characters they can use. I'd be fine with folks using a different character for every match from round 1 to Finals in this tourney, so character counterpicks should not be an issue.
    I appreciate the help though!

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    I'm going to tentatively join, until a date and time is announced. Weekend is fine for me. Haven't done a tourney in a while, so I'm looking forward to it!

    I'd say the rules and stagelist should be largely the same as the rules from APEX 2015 (except the 2 stocks and 6 minutes rule, which I'm not too big on), which is:

    Neutral/Starters (no characters have large advantages/disadvantages on any stage; always the stage for the first game):
    • Battlefield
    • Final Destination
    • Smashville


    Counterpicks (some characters have some advantages/disadvantages over others; can only be picked after first game):
    • Town & City
    • Duck Hunt
    • Lylat Cruise
    • Delfino Plaza
    • Halberd
    • Castle Siege
    • Omega Stages


    Personally, I'm fine with really any stagelist, so long as the obvious bans stay banned. Some other contenders for Counterpicks are also Pokemon Stadium 2, Skyloft, and Wuhu Island, but they have some problems that makes them universally banned in most competitive rulesets. PS2 would be it's low gravity section, Skyloft would be it's damaging background when transitioning, and Wuhu Island has a few glitches and some wonky layouts.

    Will there be a stage banning process as well? As in, the winner of the match bans a stage and the loser picks? That is also common for competitive. (By the way, banning FD bans Omegas and vice versa)

    An 8 minute timer would also be great, so no matches drag on for an eternity due to camping. And in the event of Sudden Death, the general rule for that is that rather than playing out the actual sudden death, players will play on the same stage with the same characters with 1 stock and 2 (or was it 3?) minutes on the timer. This is mostly due to the random nature of sudden death's bomb drops.

    I'm torn on customs. I personally support customs, but I can see why it'd be unfair in an online tournament, since not every player is guaranteed to have customs. Plus, it's harder to verify whether or not your opponent is also using equipment, which should be outright banned. Same goes for Mewtwo, since not everyone may have him. But for now, I'd say allow customs and Mewtwo.

    Those are my two cents. I'm a competitive player, but I'm open to any rulesets.

    Oh, and Challonge is a great site for managing brackets for tourneys. I recommend you use this.

    I'm gonna go with a stage list decided by mostly us. It might spice this tourney up if, say, Gamer turns out to be allowed by most! Though I doubt it would be played even once still, since last tourney everybody mostly just picked neutral stages even though some oddballs would've been allowed. I do fear counterpicks is not really an option for this kind of deciding upon stages though?
    However, the winner getting to ban a stage to limit losers pick sounds like a good idea, I'll add that in the rules. Same for the 8 minute timer and Sudden Death scenario(even with how unlikely that is). I also trust nobody on BitF is enough of a tryhard jerk to use equipment in a tourney for fun and without reward. Last tourney had its hitches, but nobody was cheating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshistar View Post
    aw come on </3

    As long as this tourney is handled better than the last one, I'll join. Though just a heads-up: I had to downgrade my Internet, so there may be a chance I might cause lag. Hopefully it won't be too big of a deal since these are 1v1s, though.
    I'll definitely try my best to be a good host! But to be fair, last tourney was quite a mess and the organization was not the main cause(until they bailed out). I'm pushing for clarity and communication, for that derailed last tourney quite a bit.

    tl; dr. Added time for when the tourney begins, added 8 minutes, winners ban and Sudden Death rules in the opening post. Communicate if you're hindered mid-tourney. I'm also keeping a tally on Custom Moves(currently in favour) and the suspect Stages, so keep the votes and posts coming. However, I have decided upon banning Mewto to keep things simple, main reason being because of how unfair it might be since not everybody will own him.

  2. #27
    PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PowerMiner's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    How exactly are we going to decide how to ban/decide on which stage? Are we going to just PM before starting every match and decide the stage?
    I'm not too familiar with how Stage Picks/bans go, so... I'm just used to picking whatever character and then a stage hastily so I might accidentally pick a random stage by force of habit, I think I could control myself :P
    And is there a personal stage banlist or something?

    So are there limits on character usage or no?

    And is there any limit on which character/how many times you can be a character? (excluding mewtwo who is banned I see)
    I think we could go either way with customs, might be best to ban them though due to not everyone having them but I don't know..

    And maybe we should install a time limit on when we should kick someone out of the tourney if they don't respond or something so this doesn't take too long
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  3. #28
    WHAT THE &&&& DID I TELL YOU JERRY? SHUT THE &&&& UP JERRY! Forum Veteran BrandonSP's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zant View Post
    Hrm... I don't quite know how to word this, but wouldn't it still be easier to just have people stick to this place and communicate through VM's, PM's and this topic, and not on another site? I think I'll just use Challonge in the below post for the bracket business.
    Likewise I don't intend to limit folks to the characters they can use. I'd be fine with folks using a different character for every match from round 1 to Finals in this tourney, so character counterpicks should not be an issue.
    I appreciate the help though!
    Yeah no worries, I'm just introducing the resources I know of as options. In the end it's your call anyways so feel free to use whatever you think is best.
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  4. #29
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerMiner View Post
    How exactly are we going to decide how to ban/decide on which stage? Are we going to just PM before starting every match and decide the stage?

    I'm not too familiar with how Stage Picks/bans go, so... I'm just used to picking whatever character and then a stage hastily so I might accidentally pick a random stage by force of habit, I think I could control myself :P
    For the first match, both players just pick a safe stage of personal choice, though you could both agree on a stage if you want, of course.
    After that, contact each other (be it through PM's, VM's, morse code or what have ye) so the winner can ban a stage (if they want to) and the loser can choose a stage to play on next.
    Then if it's a 1-1, you do the same thing, with the winner banning a stage and the loser selecting one.

    Rinse and repeat for every fella you fight.

    And is there a personal stage banlist or something?
    Only the one the winner picks. Else every stage on the Safe list is a safe pick (though maybe don't pick Castle Siege against Astroninja, he doesnt like that stage )

    So are there limits on character usage or no?

    And is there any limit on which character/how many times you can be a character? (excluding mewtwo who is banned I see)
    I think we could go either way with customs, might be best to ban them though due to not everyone having them but I don't know..

    And maybe we should install a time limit on when we should kick someone out of the tourney if they don't respond or something so this doesn't take too long
    No character limits, no.
    As for anybody stalling the tourney, no need for rules now, since I'll deal with that asap should the need arise, no worries.

  5. #30
    SICKNASTY Forum Veteran JSG's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    I feel like then the winner should ban more than one stage if we have a large stagelist to choose from. Looking back, the APEX 2015 rules (which is what I'm pretty much going off of, since I'm most familiar with those) has the winner ban two stages from their stagelist. But if we're going to have a pretty large list, we might as well do the same?

    Will there also be a stage clause? As in, no player is allowed to play on a stage they previously won in a set unless both players agree? I personally like that rule because if your opponent wins game 1 on Battlefield, and they mostly won due to their platform advantage (or your platform disadvantage if you were playing somebody like Little Mac), they cannot choose that stage again in the event the set goes to game 3 and possibly win the set 2-1 just because Battlefield was picked 2/3 times. Just another suggestion, but I feel like I'm kinda going a little overboard with this stuff... sorry! d:

  6. #31
    I literally hate figurative literals. itsameluigi1290's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Just out of curiosity, if everyone who has entered were to have Mewtwo by the time/before the tourney starts, would he be banned still? Or is it more of a "we won't be used to fighting/playing as him" kind of deal?

  7. #32
    Red in the face Redandgreen43's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by itsameluigi1290 View Post
    Just out of curiosity, if everyone who has entered were to have Mewtwo by the time/before the tourney starts, would he be banned still? Or is it more of a "we won't be used to fighting/playing as him" kind of deal?
    I think it's not a good idea to include Mewtwo in the tournament because nobody knows how he works that well, and we probably still won't by the time of the tournament. I think if someone were to play against Mewtwo in the tournament, it would lead to an unfair advantage, because nobody knows how he works too well, yet. If the tourney was in a month, I think it would be fine, but it's 5 days before the tournament he comes out. I personally wanted to share my thoughts over this, but it's Zant's decision, overall, not mine.

  8. #33
    I literally hate figurative literals. itsameluigi1290's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Oh 5 days? I had no idea, I thought it was later. Nevermind then. ^^;

  9. #34
    Tornado Remix Lightningdork
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Oh good, someone got around to making a tournament. I wanted to but just never had the time to actually organize one, unfortunately. I'm down, let's do this. So long as it doesn't take over a month to complete, I shouldn't have any issues participating.
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  10. #35
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightningboalt View Post
    Oh good, someone got around to making a tournament. I wanted to but just never had the time to actually organize one, unfortunately. I'm down, let's do this. So long as it doesn't take over a month to complete, I shouldn't have any issues participating.
    I'll be sure to try my best to kickstart any stragglers, don't worry, hehe. I really do not want the kind of delays the last tourney had.

    Quote Originally Posted by JSG View Post
    I feel like then the winner should ban more than one stage if we have a large stagelist to choose from. Looking back, the APEX 2015 rules (which is what I'm pretty much going off of, since I'm most familiar with those) has the winner ban two stages from their stagelist. But if we're going to have a pretty large list, we might as well do the same?

    Will there also be a stage clause? As in, no player is allowed to play on a stage they previously won in a set unless both players agree? I personally like that rule because if your opponent wins game 1 on Battlefield, and they mostly won due to their platform advantage (or your platform disadvantage if you were playing somebody like Little Mac), they cannot choose that stage again in the event the set goes to game 3 and possibly win the set 2-1 just because Battlefield was picked 2/3 times. Just another suggestion, but I feel like I'm kinda going a little overboard with this stuff... sorry! d:
    Isn't stage advantage a thing that only really comes into play with the very skilled folks because of how close to each others level they are? Here in BitF where skill levels are all over the place, I'd think that someone who loses as Lil' Mac on Battlefield, would also lose as Mac on Final Destination if facing the same opponent & character. Same reason why I don't truly think a stage clause is needed.

    Though having the winner ban more than 1 stage sounds good, but I think I'll first see how big the Safe stagelist will get. Speaking of which, I'll be putting Big Battlefield, Pokemon Stadium 2 and Kongo Jungle on the safe list in the meantime though, since they're the only ones with positive votes thus far, and I don't think there'd be too many objections to them.
    Likewise I'll ban Orbital Gate Assault, Pac-Land and Wrecking Crew for only having negative votes and I suspect this won't really change either.

  11. #36
    Ossy the Blank NiGHTcapD's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    That sucks to not have a solid date applied...you really should figure out the timeframe!
    That being said, I don't know where best to post this, but I do have something with a solid date. Birdos and gentleyoshis, I am today 18.
    I suppose I might as well put one here, all the cool kids are doing it (not to judge, but so are some not-so-cool kids).

  12. #37
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by NiGHTcapD View Post
    That sucks to not have a solid date applied...you really should figure out the timeframe!
    That being said, I don't know where best to post this, but I do have something with a solid date. Birdos and gentleyoshis, I am today 18.
    Uh, well, I can't exactly pinpoint a time, see. Nor do I see a reason for that. But I'm sure I can post the bracket on the 20th, so tis very likely it will be that day when we start.
    Last edited by Zant; April 9th, 2015 at 09:54 AM.

  13. #38
    Got it memorized? Treble Tech's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Sign me up! Doubt I'll win any matches, but it can't hurt to try.
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  14. #39
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by Treble Tech View Post
    Sign me up! Doubt I'll win any matches, but it can't hurt to try.
    That's the spirit! (Believe me, I've entered a few tournaments wherein I feel the same way.)
    I suppose I might as well put one here, all the cool kids are doing it (not to judge, but so are some not-so-cool kids).

  15. #40
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Updating to say I banned Luigi's Mansion, Mario Kart and Skyworld. I tested out today just how easy it is to combo enemies underneath the ceilings of Skyworld and LM and how much damage it does, and, well, the damage with this combo is insane, almost inescapable and incredibly easy to pull off. I should have instantly banned these stages.

    Same for Mario Kart, except here it's the stage that does most of the comboing for you. If you're at around 50% and launched upwards just as the track is overhead, you won't stop bouncing and racking up points until you've reached well over 150%.

    I will be testing out some of the other stages at a later date, since I do not always have human opponents to test the stages with.

  16. #41
    PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PowerMiner's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Seriously, please ban the walkoffs too, I'm going to be playing Ness in this tournament, I'm going to feel guilty if I win because of walkoffs :P

    Walkoff-y stages I think should be banned:
    Coliseum (Walkoffs that're easy for early kills)
    Boxing Ring (Walkoffs making the game a game for trying to knock the other out by the edge; well, it can)
    Yoshi's Wooly World (Walkoff, and flies into the sky where it can be awkward to recover, so some characters like ness might be dead)
    Eldin Bridge (Which has that disruptive bridge break as it is...)
    Wii Fit Studio (Walkoff)
    Onett (Which is an even smaller walkoff and has the cars that do 30% EACH, It's SUPER easy to kill early on that stage just because the safest place to fight is on the buildings which are close to the edge...)
    Mario Galaxy (I think they may have extended the blast zones on this one, I'm not really sure if it'd be as bad on this stage walkoff wise, plus I really like this stage.)
    Gaur Plains (Please ban because the walkoff edges at the top and metal face, I do like this stage for playing with a lot of people, but it's kind of bad for just two people.)
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  17. #42
    Assist Trophy astroninja1's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    ^i second this post

  18. #43
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    You're right. I haven't seen anybody really in favour of walkoff stages thus far either, so I'll be getting rid of those as well.

    Edit: Ah, you using Ness reminds me, I'm kicking out Wuhu Island as well. As if having split second ceilings(and just environmental bounces in general. Blegh) ain't bad enough, Ness also has a 'lovely' instant kill attack on a certain portion of the map. Anyway, we're left with quite few stages in the suspect list now. I'll check these out when I can, elsewise more input is always appreciated!
    Last edited by Zant; April 11th, 2015 at 12:29 PM.

  19. #44
    PK FIRE PK FIRE PK FIRE PowerMiner's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Gamer (I have no opinion on this stage but slightly in favor of a ban because of the strong hazard and the idea of being thrown into it) ?
    Garden of Hope (Also in favor of a ban because the bridge and the awkward fighting area with the sticks and breakable objects) BAN
    Halberd (I've been dodging the halberd's attacks for years in brawl, I don't think it's gonna be too big of a deal, we could ban it though as it could be used as a weapon for opponets throwing people into it... I do like this stage though.) ?
    Jungle Hijinx (I think this should be banned, I and others may have somewhat smaller tvs and it makes it harder to play when you're tiny in the background) BAN
    Kalos Pokemon League (I like this stage, it does have a walkoff section at one point [where the water comes] that carries off and some rather interrupting hazards though, so the omega version might be best for this tourney) BAN
    Norfair (Stage is somewhat awkward but I think we could keep it) ?
    PilotWings (I'd ban this) BAN
    Windy Hill Zone (Ban this for the strange layout and especially those bouncy things at the bottom that can result in coming back to life or getting killed) BAN
    Yoshi Island Melee (It'd be frustrating to die from the blocks in the middle, and Zant sounded somewhat not in favor of it, we could ban this) ?

    Again ? for you guys should put input and ban for the ones I think we should ban.
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  20. #45
    Assist Trophy astroninja1's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerMiner View Post
    Gamer (I have no opinion on this stage but slightly in favor of a ban because of the strong hazard and the idea of being thrown into it) ?
    Garden of Hope (Also in favor of a ban because the bridge and the awkward fighting area with the sticks and breakable objects) BAN
    Halberd (I've been dodging the halberd's attacks for years in brawl, I don't think it's gonna be too big of a deal, we could ban it though as it could be used as a weapon for opponets throwing people into it... I do like this stage though.) ?
    Jungle Hijinx (I think this should be banned, I and others may have somewhat smaller tvs and it makes it harder to play when you're tiny in the background) BAN
    Kalos Pokemon League (I like this stage, it does have a walkoff section at one point [where the water comes] that carries off and some rather interrupting hazards though, so the omega version might be best for this tourney) BAN
    Norfair (Stage is somewhat awkward but I think we could keep it) ?
    PilotWings (I'd ban this) BAN
    Windy Hill Zone (Ban this for the strange layout and especially those bouncy things at the bottom that can result in coming back to life or getting killed) BAN
    Yoshi Island Melee (It'd be frustrating to die from the blocks in the middle, and Zant sounded somewhat not in favor of it, we could ban this) ?

    Again ? for you guys should put input and ban for the ones I think we should ban.
    of these, the only one id be in favor of keeping legal is Halberd

  21. #46
    Tornado Remix Lightningdork
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Halberd is the only one you have as questionable that I'd say to keep. I think Norfair's hazards are too disruptive. I actually don't mind Pilotwings, personally, but it apparently does screw people over so let's be cautious here.

    I'd also argue that we should ditch Big Battlefield, personally. We have a time limit here... that's a stage that's very easy to camp on and avoid others to stall out the time, so I'm not particularly fond of it.
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  22. #47
    Laughs at his own jokes--HAHAHAHAohwait OshaliteX2's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    I do like halberd, and it has some of my fave hazards of any stage.
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  23. #48
    Clobberin Monster Zant's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerMiner View Post
    Gamer (I have no opinion on this stage but slightly in favor of a ban because of the strong hazard and the idea of being thrown into it) ?
    Garden of Hope (Also in favor of a ban because the bridge and the awkward fighting area with the sticks and breakable objects) BAN
    Halberd (I've been dodging the halberd's attacks for years in brawl, I don't think it's gonna be too big of a deal, we could ban it though as it could be used as a weapon for opponets throwing people into it... I do like this stage though.) ?
    Jungle Hijinx (I think this should be banned, I and others may have somewhat smaller tvs and it makes it harder to play when you're tiny in the background) BAN
    Kalos Pokemon League (I like this stage, it does have a walkoff section at one point [where the water comes] that carries off and some rather interrupting hazards though, so the omega version might be best for this tourney) BAN
    Norfair (Stage is somewhat awkward but I think we could keep it) ?
    PilotWings (I'd ban this) BAN
    Windy Hill Zone (Ban this for the strange layout and especially those bouncy things at the bottom that can result in coming back to life or getting killed) BAN
    Yoshi Island Melee (It'd be frustrating to die from the blocks in the middle, and Zant sounded somewhat not in favor of it, we could ban this) ?

    Again ? for you guys should put input and ban for the ones I think we should ban.
    Quote Originally Posted by astroninja1 View Post
    of these, the only one id be in favor of keeping legal is Halberd
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightningboalt View Post
    Halberd is the only one you have as questionable that I'd say to keep. I think Norfair's hazards are too disruptive. I actually don't mind Pilotwings, personally, but it apparently does screw people over so let's be cautious here.

    I'd also argue that we should ditch Big Battlefield, personally. We have a time limit here... that's a stage that's very easy to camp on and avoid others to stall out the time, so I'm not particularly fond of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by OshaliteX2 View Post
    I do like halberd, and it has some of my fave hazards of any stage.
    Aight, I'll allow Halberd since everybody seems for it, and I'll ban out most of the others, as well as Big Battlefield(indeed, now that there is a timer that stage just isn't really viable anymore).

    I'll still keep Pilot Wings, Windy Hill Zone and Gamer suspect for now. PW is generally very safe except for those environmental bounces, Gamer has a very easy to dodge and predictable and damn fun hazard that I don't think is much worse than Halberd's, and I think Windy Hill Zone is safe like those too, but I rarely play the stage, so I'll have to see for myself tomorrow just how hazardous those bumpers are. I always thought they weren't much worse than Kongo Jungle's barrel?

  24. #49
    Assist Trophy astroninja1's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    well the thing with gamer is its easy to dodge, until your opponent knocks you out of your safe spot. also the random nature of the stage layout doesnt help

  25. #50
    Standing on the brink of insanity with one foot on a banana peel. TheMightyBox's Avatar
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    Re: The Super Smash Bros 4 Wii U tourney!

    Gamer isn't the best for competitive matches, when 5-Volt shows up you either toss an opponent into what is generally a 1-Hit-KO hazard field or the entire momentum of the match is stopped to wait for her to pass on by.

    I'd vote to keep Windy Hill open tho, there isn't anything too broken about the stage, and the fact that the springs are about level with the main platform means you can't recover from impossible stuff with them. The worst I can say is that it's possible to run away using the windmill and those springs, but that's about it.

    Also I'd like to sign up for this. I should have the time to get my hands on some workable wi-fi this time around.
    If I ever have some words of infinite wisdom, I'll be sure to tell you.

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